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Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.” - Genesis 2:18
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Meet Like Minded Believers Can two walk together except they be agreed? - Amos 3:3
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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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SGS offers a "fenced" community: both for private single members and also a public Protestant forums open to Bible-believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene-derived Christian Church.
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iam1me

Jesus is not God Almighty himself

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iam1me

Jesus' relationship to God has always been a highly controversial and complex topic, so much so that most just throw their hands up in the air and claim that it is beyond our ability to comprehend (while simultaneously insisting their unintelligible view is correct). I am of the mind that much of this confusion stems from an attempt to interpret those passages that call Jesus God, in some sense, in the most literal of ways. In fact, there is plenty of precedent in scripture for those who are clearly not God himself being addressed as God or as "gods." And they insist upon this literal interpretation despite the abundance of scriptures which clearly differentiate Jesus from God.

Let us start by considering others who have been addressed as God/god: angels, such as the angel in the burning bush (Exodus 3), Moses (Exodus 7:1), and more generally the Jewish People (John 10:34). In none of these cases do we interpret these individuals as either literally being God or blasphemous. Rather, these are God's agents, his mediators, his people. Jesus, as the sole mediator between men and God under the New Covenant, as the one who has perfectly followed God's will, may thus appropriately be addressed as God in the same sense as others in the scripture without any need for a literal interpretation.

In fact, if we look at passages like Hebrews 1:8-9, while Jesus is addressed as God here, it simultaneously makes reference to Jesus' God (does God have a God?).

And if we look at passages like 1 Cor 15:20-28, Paul makes clear that Jesus is both distinct and lesser than God:
 

1 Cor 15:20-28 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

 


If you disagree, then please explain why the term "God" should be interpreted literally when applied to Christ instead of in the precedent set by the terms usage to others in scripture.

 

Edited by iam1me

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Knotical

John 1:1  That is all.

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iam1me

Referencing John 1:1 in no way, shape, or form addresses the issue. I'm not arguing whether or not Jesus is called "God" in some sense by the scriptures, but rather how it should be interpreted.

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Knotical

Jesus is not being called God, He is God.  Period.  Scripture repeatedly points to this.  He is God the Son.  Within the hierarchy of the Godhead, He is at the right hand of God the Father.

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iam1me

So you insist on ignoring everything that has been said and blindly repeating yourself. You'll only convince yourself that way. Please show some intellectual integrity.

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Knotical

I am ignoring heretical views of Jesus.  Not much intellectual integrity wrapped up inside heresy.

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iam1me

You are simply ignorant and refuse to consider any evidence that would challenge your pre-conceptions. Since you aren't interested in having a real discussion, please leave the thread.

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Knotical

Or, you could stop trolling this site with your heretical views.

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iam1me

The only troll here is you. I'll be reporting you now for continuing to derail this thread.

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Knotical

Mmmm, we shall see.  Be my guest.

 

You may want to take a look around first.

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Guest William
11 minutes ago, iam1me said:

The only troll here is you. I'll be reporting you now for continuing to derail this thread.

You didn't read our TOS did you?

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iam1me
4 minutes ago, William said:

You didn't read our TOS did you?

Does anyone read the Terms of Service?

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Guest
23 minutes ago, iam1me said:

You are simply ignorant and refuse to consider any evidence that would challenge your pre-conceptions. Since you aren't interested in having a real discussion, please leave the thread.

Knotical is correct.  This is an orthodox Christian forum, by Christians for Christians.  We feel no compulsion to entertain or address atheism, cults or any heretical views.  We have heard it all before.   You should have read the TOS.

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Guest
2 minutes ago, iam1me said:

Does anyone read the Terms of Service?

Not our problem.

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iam1me

Lmao. You lot call yourself Christian, but are afraid of studying the scriptures to hear what they say.  You won't even entertain the notion that perhaps you don't know everything, that there could be any error in your particular interpretation of things. You are probably Trump supporters to top it off.

 

Matthew 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

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Guest
10 minutes ago, iam1me said:

Lmao. You lot call yourself Christian, but are afraid of studying the scriptures to hear what they say.  You won't even entertain the notion that perhaps you don't know everything, that there could be any error in your particular interpretation of things. You are probably Trump supporters to top it off.

 

Matthew 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

We don't care what you think.  We were willing to allow you to stay for the time being because we find asinine posts such as yours mildly amusing.  But now we must say no thank you to your heretical claims.  Like I said we have heard it all before.  There is nothing even remotely interesting about you or your post.

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Guest
39 minutes ago, Knotical said:

Mmmm, we shall see.  Be my guest.

 

You may want to take a look around first.

Now here is a man with lots and lots of confidence.

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Knotical
1 minute ago, Origen said:

Now here is a man with lots and lots of confidence.

Confidence in the staff, that is.

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CDF47
2 hours ago, iam1me said:

Jesus' relationship to God has always been a highly controversial and complex topic, so much so that most just throw their hands up in the air and claim that it is beyond our ability to comprehend (while simultaneously insisting their unintelligible view is correct). I am of the mind that much of this confusion stems from an attempt to interpret those passages that call Jesus God, in some sense, in the most literal of ways. In fact, there is plenty of precedent in scripture for those who are clearly not God himself being addressed as God or as "gods." And they insist upon this literal interpretation despite the abundance of scriptures which clearly differentiate Jesus from God.

Let us start by considering others who have been addressed as God/god: angels, such as the angel in the burning bush (Exodus 3), Moses (Exodus 7:1), and more generally the Jewish People (John 10:34). In none of these cases do we interpret these individuals as either literally being God or blasphemous. Rather, these are God's agents, his mediators, his people. Jesus, as the sole mediator between men and God under the New Covenant, as the one who has perfectly followed God's will, may thus appropriately be addressed as God in the same sense as others in the scripture without any need for a literal interpretation.

In fact, if we look at passages like Hebrews 1:8-9, while Jesus is addressed as God here, it simultaneously makes reference to Jesus' God (does God have a God?).

And if we look at passages like 1 Cor 15:20-28, Paul makes clear that Jesus is both distinct and lesser than God:
 

1 Cor 15:20-28 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

 


If you disagree, then please explain why the term "God" should be interpreted literally when applied to Christ instead of in the precedent set by the terms usage to others in scripture.

 

Sorry but Christ is the Lord, co-equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit in the Godhead, as indicated in Scripture.

Edited by CDF47
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Just Mike
12 hours ago, William said:

You didn't read our TOS did you?

William you might consider making it a requirement that unless you tell us something about yourself you can't post until you do. This person is one more that has attacked the Lord Jesus Christ.  I expect we want to be friendly and perhaps he might be enlightened by the Gospel, but it is IMO risky as he makes no bones as to where he is coming from. Just my lame opinion. God bless, have a GOD day.

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Guest Becky

Some times letting a person speak reminds us we need to be on guard, ready to STAND for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are in His army.

 

 Eph 6:10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 
Eph 6:11  Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 
Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 
Eph 6:13  Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 
Eph 6:14  Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 
Eph 6:15  And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 
Eph 6:16  Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 
Eph 6:17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 
Eph 6:18  Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; 

 

 

2Ti 4:16  At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge. 
2Ti 4:17  Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. 
2Ti 4:18  And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 
 

 

 

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Benji

If Jesus isn't God then who is He?  Is He another God who is not quite almighty, but perhaps just mighty?  Isaiah 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."  Did God change His mind and decide that after Isaiah died He was going to create another God and call Him Jesus?  If so where can I find this in scripture?  If Jesus isn't God why is He called God in 32 New Testament verses?  Why do we worship Jesus if He isn't God. We are strictly forbidden by God to worship any other god, yet Jesus was worshiped in the NT at least six times.  Why did Thomas call Jesus God in John 20:28?  Perhaps Thomas was mistaken?  There is only one God and One Lord. Eph 4:5-6 "One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."  Not two, just one.

 

Benji

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CDF47

The attached file is from a Bible Study on the Deity of Christ.  There are many references to His Deity.  I often find this file helpful.

Deity_of_Christ_Bible_Study.pdf

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Just Mike
22 hours ago, iam1me said:

Jesus' relationship to God has always been a highly controversial and complex topic, so much so that most just throw their hands up in the air and claim that it is beyond our ability to comprehend (while simultaneously insisting their unintelligible view is correct). I am of the mind that much of this confusion stems from an attempt to interpret those passages that call Jesus God, in some sense, in the most literal of ways. In fact, there is plenty of precedent in scripture for those who are clearly not God himself being addressed as God or as "gods." And they insist upon this literal interpretation despite the abundance of scriptures which clearly differentiate Jesus from God.

Let us start by considering others who have been addressed as God/god: angels, such as the angel in the burning bush (Exodus 3), Moses (Exodus 7:1), and more generally the Jewish People (John 10:34). In none of these cases do we interpret these individuals as either literally being God or blasphemous. Rather, these are God's agents, his mediators, his people. Jesus, as the sole mediator between men and God under the New Covenant, as the one who has perfectly followed God's will, may thus appropriately be addressed as God in the same sense as others in the scripture without any need for a literal interpretation.

In fact, if we look at passages like Hebrews 1:8-9, while Jesus is addressed as God here, it simultaneously makes reference to Jesus' God (does God have a God?).

And if we look at passages like 1 Cor 15:20-28, Paul makes clear that Jesus is both distinct and lesser than God:
 

1 Cor 15:20-28 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

 


If you disagree, then please explain why the term "God" should be interpreted literally when applied to Christ instead of in the precedent set by the terms usage to others in scripture.

 

The title of your thread offends me greatly! This is a Christian web site, and to even suggest such a thing is beyond my understanding. If you had a question then ask, but to make a thread like this is disrespectful. I am deeply concerned for you.

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Knotical

Why are we still flogging this banned horse?

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