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Question for Dispensationalist (and other futurists)

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Guest Becky

Nor David have i claimed they do.. i think the more dispensationalism is debunked the more verities it shows up in. The Scriptures i quoted were not emotionalism . Often much of my post are emotional they come from my heart. 

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Guest William
3 hours ago, Becky said:

Dispensation of Innocence

Gotquestions on the dispensation of Innocence: Adam and Eve were innocent until they disobeyed God, bringing sin and death into the world (Romans 5:12). This death affected their bodies and souls and those of all of their descendants. At the moment of Adam and Eve’s sin, they lost their innocence, as they were immediately aware, and they hid in shame from God (Genesis 3:7-8). The couple tried to cover their sin, which they somehow associated with their sex organs, but their attempt was futile.

 

And now what Paul writes:

 

1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

 

John Darby:

In innocence Adam had the first place; in sin, Eve It was she who, being deceived, brought in transgression. Adam was not deceived, guilty as he was of disobeying God. United to his wife, he followed her, not deceived by the enemy but weak through his affection. Without the weakness, it was this which the second Adam did in grace; He followed His deceived and guilty bride, but in order to redeem and deliver her by taking her faults upon Himself. Eve suffered on earth the penalty of her fault in a way which is a mark of the judgment of God; but walking in modesty, with faith and love and holiness, she shall be delivered in the hour of her trial; and that which bears the stamp of judgment shall be an occasion of the mercy and succour of God.

 

John Calvin:

4 And Adam was not deceived He alludes to the punishment inflicted on the woman: 
“Because thou hast obeyed the voice of the serpent, thou shalt be subject to the authority of thy husband, and thy desire shall be to him.” (43) (Gen 3:16.) 
Because she had given fatal advice, it was right that she should learn that she was under the power and will of another; and because she had drawn her husband aside from the command of God, it was right that she should be deprived of all liberty and placed under the yoke. Besides, the Apostle does not rest his argument entirely or absolutely on the cause of the transgression, but founds it on the sentence which was pronounced by God. 


Yet it may be thought that these two statements are somewhat contradictory: that the subjection of the woman is the punishment of her transgression, and yet that it was imposed on her from the creation; for thence it will follow, that she was doomed to servitude before she sinned. I reply, there is nothing to hinder that the condition of obeying should be natural from the beginning, and that afterwards the accidental condition of serving should come into existence; so that the subjection was now less voluntary and agreeable than it had formerly been. 


Again, this passage has given to some people an occasion for affirming that Adam did not fall by means of error, but that he was only overcome by the allurements of his wife. Accordingly, they think that the woman only was deceived by the wiles of the devil, to believe that she and her husband would be like the gods; But that Adam was not at all persuaded of this, but tasted the fruit in order to please his wife. But it is easy to refute this opinion; for, if Adam had not given credit to the falsehood of Satan, God would not have reproached him: 


“Behold, Adam is become like one of us.” (Gen 3:22.) 


There are other reasons of which I say nothing; for there needs not a long refutation of an error which does not rest on any probable conjecture. By these words Paul does not mean that Adam was not entangled by the same deceitfulness of the devil, (44) but that the cause or source of the transgression proceeded from Eve. 

 

(43) “Et ta volonte sera sujete a la sienne.” — “And thy will shall be subject to his will.” 
(44) “Qu’il ne donna lien a aucune persuasion du diable.” — “That he did not yield to any persuasion of the devil.” 
 

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Guest William

Now notice John Gill's [Baptist] commentary:

 

There is no need to say with interpreters, that he was not deceived first; and that he was not deceived immediately by the serpent, but by Eve; and that he is never said in Scripture to be deceived, as Melchizedek is never said to have a father or mother. The apostle's positive assertion is to be taken without any such limitations or qualifications; Adam never was deceived at all; neither by the serpent, with whom he never conversed; nor by his wife, he knew what he did, when he took the fruit of her, and ate; he ate it not under any deception, or vain imagination, that they should not die, but should be as gods, knowing good and evil.

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Guest Becky

Scofield:

The First Dispensation: Innocency. Man was created in innocency, placed in a perfect environment, subjected to an absolutely simple test, and warned of the consequence of disobedience. The woman fell through pride; the man deliberately. 1 Timothy 2:14 God restored His sinning creatures, but the dispensation of innocency ended in the judgment of the Expulsion Genesis 3:24 See, for the other dispensations;

Therefore the Lord God

The Second Dispensation: Conscience. By disobedience man came to a personal and experimental knowledge of good and evil--of good as obedience, of evil as disobedience to the known will of God. Through that knowledge conscience awoke. Expelled from Eden and placed under the second, or ADAMIC COVENANT, man was responsible to do all known good, to abstain from all known evil, and to approach God through sacrifice. The result of this second testing of man is stated in Genesis 6:5 and the dispensation ended in the judgment of the Flood. Apparently "the east of the garden" Genesis 3:24 where were the cherubims and the flame, remained the place of worship through this second dispensation. See for the other six dispensations:

 

The Third Dispensation: Human Government. Under Conscience, as in Innocency, man utterly failed, and the judgment of the Flood marks the end of the second dispensation and the beginning of the third. The declaration of the Noahic Covenant subjects humanity to a new test. Its distinctive feature is the institution, for the first time, of human government--the government of man by man. The highest function of government is the judicial taking of life. All other governmental powers are implied in that. It follows that the third dispensation is distinctively that of human government. Man is responsible to govern the world for God. That responsibility rested upon the whole race, Jew and Gentile, until the failure of Israel under the Palestinian Covenant (Deu 28.- 30:1-10 ) brought the judgment of the Captivities, when "the times of the Gentiles" (See) ; Luke 21:24 ; Revelation 16:14 began, and the government of the world passed exclusively into Gentile hands ; Daniel 2:36-45 ; Luke 21:24 ; Acts 15:14-17 . That both Israel and the Gentiles have governed for self, not God, is sadly apparent. The judgment of the confusion of tongues ended the racial testing; that of the captivities the Jewish; while the Gentile testing will end in the smiting of the Image (Da 2.) and the judgment of the nations Matthew 25:31-46 .

 

The Fourth Dispensation: Promise. For Abraham, and his descendants it is evident that the Abrahamic Covenant (See Scofield "Genesis 15:18") made a great change. They became distinctively the heirs of promise. That covenant is wholly gracious and unconditional. The descendants of Abraham had but to abide in their own land to inherit every blessing. In Egypt they lost their blessings, but not their covenant. The Dispensation of Promise ended when Israel rashly accepted the law Exodus 19:8 . Grace had prepared a deliverer (Moses), provided a sacrifice for the guilty, and by divine power brought them out of bondage Exodus 19:4 but at Sinai they exchanged grace for law. The Dispensation of Promise extends from Genesis 12:1 to Exodus 19:8, and was exclusively Israelitish. The dispensation must be distinguished from the covenant. The former is a mode of testing; the latter is everlasting because unconditional. The law did not abrogate the Abrahamic Covenant Galatians 3:15-18 but was an intermediate disciplinary dealing "till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made" ; Galatians 3:19-29 ; 4:1-7 . Only the dispensation, as a testing of Israel, ended at the giving of the law.

The Fifth Dispensation: Law. This dispensation extends from Sinai to Calvary--from Exodus to the Cross. The history of Israel in the wilderness and in the land is one long record of the violation of the law. The testing of the nation by law ended in the judgment of the Captivities, but the dispensation itself ended at the Cross.

 

Grace. Summary:

(1) Grace is "the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man. . . not by works of righteousness which we have done" Titus 3:4 Titus 3:5 .

It is, therefore, constantly set in contrast to law, under which God demands righteousness from man, as, under grace, he gives righteousness to man Romans 3:21 Romans 3:22 ; 8:4 ; Philemon 3:9 . Law is connected with Moses and works; grace with Christ and faith ; John 1:17 ; Romans 10:4-10 . Law blesses the good; grace saves the bad ; Exodus 19:5 ; Ephesians 2:1-9 . Law demands that blessings be earned; grace is a free gift ; Deuteronomy 28:1-6 ; Ephesians 2:8 ; Romans 4:4 Romans 4:5 .

(2) As a dispensation, grace begins with the death and resurrection of Christ Romans 3:24-26 Romans 4:24 Romans 4:25 . The point of testing is no longer legal obedience as the condition of salvation, but acceptance or rejection of Christ, with good works as a fruit of salvation, ; John 1:12 John 1:13 ; 3:36 ; Matthew 21:37 ; 22:24 ; John 15:22 John 15:25 ; Hebrews 1:2 ; 1 John 5:10-12 . The immediate result of this testing was the rejection of Christ by the Jews, and His crucifixion by Jew and Gentile Acts 4:27 . The predicted end of the testing of man under grace is the apostasy of the professing church: See "Apostasy" (See Scofield "2 Timothy 3:1") 2 Timothy 3:1-8 and the resultant apocalyptic judgments.

(3) Grace has a twofold manifestation: in salvation Romans 3:24 and in the walk and service of the saved Romans 6:15 .

 

dispensation of the fullness of times

The Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. This, the seventh and last of the ordered ages which condition human life on the earth, is identical with the kingdom covenanted to David. 2 Samuel 7:8-17 ; Zechariah 12:8

Summary;

Luke 1:31-33 ; 1 Corinthians 15:24, and gathers into itself under Christ all past "times":

(1) The time of oppression and misrule ends by Christ taking His kingdom. Isaiah 11:3 Isaiah 11:4 .

(2) The time of testimony and divine forbearance ends in judgment. Matthew 25:31-46 ; Acts 17:30 Acts 17:31 ; Revelation 20:7-15 .

(3) The time of toil ends in rest and reward. 2 Thessalonians 1:6 2 Thessalonians 1:7 .

(4) The time of suffering ends in glory. Romans 8:17 Romans 8:18 .

(5) The time of Israel's blindness and chastisement ends in restoration and conversion. Romans 11:25-27 ; Ezekiel 39:25-29 .

(6) The times of the Gentiles end in the smiting of the image and the setting up of the kingdom of the heavens. Daniel 2:34 Daniel 2:35 ; Revelation 19:15-21 .

(7) The time of creation's thraldom ends in deliverance at the manifestation of the sons of God. Genesis 3:17 ; Isaiah 11:6-8 ; Romans 8:19-21 .

 

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