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Faber

The confusion of Dale Tuggy concerning the worship of Jesus as God

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Faber

 Dale Tuggy denies the Lord Jesus is God, but affirms that He is the proper recipient of worship.

 

 Concerning the worship that the Lord Jesus receives in Revelation 5 Dale affirms:

 In short, the Lamb (Jesus) is worshiped because of his unique service to God. There is not any confused and confusing statement here about Jesus being "worshiped as God.” 

https://trinities.org/blog/worship-of-jesus-worship-of-god-and-the-fulfillment-fallacy/

 

 Dale ought to make himself aware of the fact that the worship that Lord Jesus receives in Revelation 5 is because of His attributes which He shares with the Father. Thus the worship He properly receives is because He is God. (The underlined and bold below are mine).

     1. The BDAG (3rd Edition): Concerning Revelation 5:12 the Greek word for "wisdom" is sophia and it is used "of the exalted Christ" (page 935), but when defining "might" (ischys) which also refers to the Lord Jesus it is "used with dynamis and similar words as attributes of God" (page 484).[*1]

 That the Lord Jesus is praised for "wisdom" in Revelation 5:12 proves His omniscience just as when the Father is praised for "wisdom" in Revelation 7:12 proves His omniscience. If the Lord Jesus is not omniscient (God)[*2] then He would not have been praised for possessing this attribute.[*3]
     


 [*1] This is also seen in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament. Concerning sophia (wisdom) it reads: supreme intelligence, such as belongs to God: Rev. 7:12, also to Christ, exalted to God's right hand, Rev. 5:12 (page 582). 

https://biblehub.com/greek/4678.htm

 

[*2] William Mounce: In a remarkable attestation to the deity of Jesus Christ, the apostle John records two doxologies in which what is ascribed to God (the Father) is also ascribed to the Lamb, who is Jesus the Son (Rev. 5:12, "Worthy is the Lamb to receive...strength"; 7:12, "Praise and...strength be to our God forever") (Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, Strength, page 688). 

 

[*3] J. Goetzmann: In Revelation sophia is praised in two hymnic texts as an attribute of God (Rev. 7:12; cf. also Rom. 16:27); it is also to be attributed to the slain Lamb at his exaltation (Rev. 5:12). The exalted Christ has the same power and wisdom as God (NIDNTT 3:1032, Wisdom). 

     
    
    
 In view of the evidence presented above the following by Charles Spurgeon is quite appropriate:  
 Depend upon it, my hearer, you never will go to heaven unless you are prepared to worship Jesus Christ as God. They are all doing it there: you will have to come to it, and if you entertain the notion that he is a mere man, or that he is anything less than God, I am afraid you will have to begin at the beginning and learn what true religion means. You have a poor foundation to rest upon. 
http://www.thedailyspurgeon.com/2012/01/true-god-from-true-god.html

 

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Faber

 The citations found from Dale Tuggy are from the following link:

https://randalrauser.com/2019/01/debriefing-the-trinity-debate-a-conversation-with-dale-tuggy/

 

 

 

 The confusion of Dale Tuggy continues...

 

Part 1

Dale Tuggy: Worshiping is a type of honoring, and there is nothing self-evident about the claim that necessarily, only God can be worshiped. You honor both your parents; you honor both the mayor and the prime-minister. Why shouldn’t religious honor be in principle give-able to more than one?

 

My response: Parents, mayors and the prime-minister are never to receive prayer which is a major component of worship.[*1] Only God is the proper recipient of prayer,[*2] and since the Bible teaches that the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer this proves He is God.

 

1 Kings 8:38-39

whatever prayer...is made...then hear in heaven...for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men. (NASB)

 Every person can come to God in prayer at anytime, in any language, speaking audibly and/or silently, and He will fully understand all the hearts from which all these prayers ascend, for He is the "Hearer of prayer" (Psalm 65:2). To have this knowledge necessitates omniscience[*3] which demonstrates that the Lord Jesus is God.

 

Part 2

Dale Tuggy: And notice that angel says “Worship God [and not me, the angel], not “Worship only God!” as some mistakenly translate. (Revelation 19:10, 22:9) This is because the very same author has just positively portrayed the worship of both God and his exalted Son.

 

My response: There was no need for the angel to have said "worship only God" for by saying "worship God" it is understood that He alone ought to be worshiped. God alone is holy. The absolute holiness of God is the foundation to the worship that He ought to receive.

Revelation 15:4

Who will not fear, O Lord,
and glorify your name?
For you alone are holy.
All nations will come
and worship you,
for your righteous acts have been revealed. (ESV)

 

 Since the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of worship this demonstrates that He is absolutely holy (= God).[*4]

 

Part 3

Dale Tuggy: Dr. Brown’s move here was to insist that John 5:23 says the Son should be honored “even as” the Father is, in the sense that exactly the same type of religious worship must be given to each (and this is the type only God should get). But the passage simply doesn’t demand that reading...

 

My response: Others would disagree with Mr. Tuggy.

     1. W. E. Vine: the duty of all to honour the Son equally with the Father, 5:23 (Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, Honour, page 561). 
     2. Robert Reymond: With these words Jesus claimed the right to demand, equally with the Father, the honor (that is, the devotion and worship) of men! (Jesus, Divine Messiah, page 89). 

     3. D. A. Carson: Either John is supremely deluded and must be dismissed as a fool, or his witness is true and Jesus is to ascribed honours due to God alone. There is no rational middle ground (The Gospel According to John, page 255). 

 

 Furthermore, Mr. Tuggy should be aware that there is no proof anywhere in the entire Bible that differentiates a level of worship that the Father is to receive from us that is superior to the worship properly due unto the Lord Jesus. Not one.[*5] If you (or anyone else) have a passage or passages that proves otherwise then by all means supply one/them.

 

 

[*1]  Hastings' Dictionary of the New Testament: It has been well said that ‘for...the early Christian brotherhood the whole of life was a continuous worship, and the one great feature of that worship was prayer’ (Worship, A. E. Burn)

https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdn/w/worship.html

 

[*2] Prayer is properly due unto God alone.

     1. New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): In prayer we are never to forget whom we are addressing: the living God, the almighty one with whom nothing is impossible, and from whom therefore all things may be expected (2:857, Prayer, H. Schonweiss).

     2. New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis (NIDOTTE): To pray is an act of faith in the almighty and gracious God who responds to the prayers of his people (4:1062, Prayer, P. A. Verhoef).

 

[*3] https://www.christforums.com/forums/topic/5196-kardiognōstēs-does-it-mean-omniscient/?tab=comments#comment-58451

 

[*4] Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology: Jesus Christ sits with God on God's single throne (3:21; 12:5; 22:1,3), shares God's predicates of eternity (1:17; 2:8; 22:13), and receives worship (5:8-14; 7:9-10), which is due to God alone (15:4) (Theology of Revelation, 11th paragraph, Paul Andrew Rainbow).

https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/bed/r/revelation-theology-of.html

 

[*5] https://www.christforums.com/forums/topic/15305-refuting-greg-deubles-subordinated relative worship-of-jesus /

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