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Guest

Poll Question: Will the temple be rebuilt?

Will the temple be rebuilt?  

16 members have voted

  1. 1. Will the temple be rebuilt?



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Guest William
2 hours ago, Becky said:

Why do we pick this passage over that passage to be symbolic or literal.

 

WWW.REFORMEDANSWERS.ORG

Why do Reformed Theologians reject literal interpretations of prophecy?

 

 

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Guest theophilus
On 3/23/2019 at 8:20 AM, Origen said:

As for not finding something in Scripture, you will not find in Ezekiel:


(1) any mention of a millennium in the text
(2) and there is no call to built\rebuild the temple in the text.

The word millennium doesn't appear but when else can the events described take place?  And we are not commanded to build this temple because it won't be built until Jesus returns.

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Guest
10 minutes ago, theophilus said:

The word millennium doesn't appear but when else can the events described take place?

What a wonderful exegetical method!  Because you don't know force something upon the text.

 

10 minutes ago, theophilus said:

And we are not commanded to build this temple because it won't be built until Jesus returns.

There is no command to built a temple in Ezekiel at all, not even a future temple.  Period!

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davidtaylorjr
11 hours ago, Becky said:

Here is an example : I dont believe there can be a holy place in a man built temple 

Holy of Holies was in a man-built temple.

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Guest Becky
11 hours ago, Becky said:

Why do we pick this passage over that passage to be symbolic or literal.  What is 'it' that causes our choice,. A reply of studying or understanding The Word is not the answer as well as The Holy Spirit taught me.?  

Here is an example : I dont believe there can be a holy place in a man built temple  Here is why it is  important to me Jesus said this: 

 Mat_24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 

What made the holy place in the old temple holy to me it was the presence of God. 

 

Exo_25:22  And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel. 

 

Lev_16:2  And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat. 


Act 7:48  Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 
Act 7:49  Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 
Act 7:50  Hath not my hand made all these things? 
Act 7:51  Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 

 

Eph 2:20  And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 
Eph 2:21  In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 
Eph 2:22  In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. 

 

1Pe 2:5  Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 
1Pe 2:6  Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 
 

Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 
1Co 15:46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 
1Co 15:47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 
 

 

 

15 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Holy of Holies was in a man-built temple.

Yes 'Moses' Tabernacle' even 'Solomon's Temple' were built by man. The Scriptures posted are but a few of the ones speaking to the presence of God in the Holy of Holies in those man built temples . 

What are your beliefs , or your understanding of the Holy of Holies which God said He would meet with them ?  In the OT God said He would meet with them there. ( Ex 25:22) I do not at this time see anything close to that in the NT. 

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On 3/24/2019 at 10:42 PM, CDF47 said:

No, but the 1000 years cited may be.  I believe it is actually.  The book is heavily symbolic but not all symbolic.

Exactly!  There seems to be a rule if there is a specific number mentioned it must be taken literally.  There is no reason to even entertain such an idea.  The truth is such a rule is meant to stack the deck.  It ignores literary genre, cultural context, and historical setting.  The only purpose of such a rule is to force an interpretation upon a text.  If one follows such an obviously flawed rule (i.e. hermeneutical methodology) the misunderstanding of the text's meaning is sure to follow.

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davidtaylorjr
59 minutes ago, Origen said:

Exactly!  There seems to be a rule if there is a specific number mentioned it must be taken literally.  There is no reason to even entertain such an idea.  The truth is such a rule is meant to stack the deck.  It ignores literary genre, cultural context, and historical setting.  The only purpose of such a rule is to force an interpretation upon a text.  If one follows such an obviously flawed rule (i.e. hermeneutical methodology) misunderstand of the text's meaning is sure to follow.

Now who is misrepresenting who?

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Deidre

If the temple isn't rebuilt, literally, would this mean that certain prophesies wouldn't come true? 

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davidtaylorjr
7 minutes ago, Deidre said:

If the temple isn't rebuilt, literally, would this mean that certain prophesies wouldn't come true? 

Yes

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Guest Becky
18 minutes ago, Deidre said:

If the temple isn't rebuilt, literally, would this mean that certain prophesies wouldn't come true? 

 

11 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Yes

I would be interested in a Scriptural list of said prophesies 

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Deidre

While not entirely spelled out, the passages found in Matthew 24:15 and II Thessolonians 2:3-4 infer that an anti-christ will come and ''dwell in the temple of God,'' and will act as though he is greater than God. Could this mean that an actual temple needs to be constructed? Maybe. But, the prophecy itself leads to the ''end times,'' according to Scripture.

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Guest Becky
8 minutes ago, Deidre said:

While not entirely spelled out, the passages found in Matthew 24:15 and II Thessolonians 2:3-4 infer that an anti-christ will come and ''dwell in the temple of God,'' and will act as though he is greater than God. Could this mean that an actual temple needs to be constructed? Maybe. But, the prophecy itself leads to the ''end times,'' according to Scripture.

Not asking about thinking or believing Do we know  this did not happen in 70 ad when God had the Romans destroy Jerusalem. 

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 
 

 

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davidtaylorjr
6 minutes ago, Becky said:

Not asking about thinking or believing Do we know  this did not happen in 70 ad when God had the Romans destroy Jerusalem. 

Did Jesus come back? Nope. So yes, we know it wasn't 70AD

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Guest Becky

Show me the Scripture that say it all happens at the same time or about the same time.  Remember a thousand years is as a day ,

 

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davidtaylorjr
2 hours ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Now who is misrepresenting who?

@Origen you can laugh at that post all you want but it doesn't change the fact that you did the very same thing you accused me of. You misrepresented the beliefs of someone else. It is even demonstrated in this very thread that what you said is not what I believe.

Just now, Becky said:

do you know

??

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Guest Becky

 

2 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

??

Old eyes and old fingers on the key board 🙂 

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Guest
4 minutes ago, Deidre said:

While not entirely spelled out, the passages found in Matthew 24:15 and II Thessolonians 2:3-4 infer that an anti-christ will come and ''dwell in the temple of God,'' and will act as though he is greater than God. Could this mean that an actual temple needs to be constructed? Maybe. But, the prophecy itself leads to the ''end times,'' according to Scripture.

You have a number of problems.

 

First, those two passages no where mentions an anti-christ.

 

Second, you link them together without any evidence.

 

Third, the gender of the word βδέλυγμα (i.e. abomination) is neuter.

 

Fourth, the phrase "takes his seat in the temple of God" can be understood metaphorically.  This is nothing new.

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Guest Becky
1 minute ago, Origen said:

 

Third, the gender of the word βδέλυγμα (i.e. abomination) is neuter.

Splane please   I think i get it but would like your thoughts

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Guest
On 3/25/2019 at 2:41 PM, davidtaylorjr said:

Origen you can laugh at that post all you want but it doesn't change the fact that you did the very same thing you accused me of.

I understand that is your perception.

 

On 3/25/2019 at 2:41 PM, davidtaylorjr said:

You misrepresented the beliefs of someone else.

Then please show us in this thread where your comments on understanding numbers\numerals according to literary genre, cultural context, and historical setting.  Sorry, never mind you didn't.  That was me not you.

 

On 3/25/2019 at 2:41 PM, davidtaylorjr said:

It is even demonstrated in this very thread that what you said is not what I believe.

Again, where are your comments on understanding numbers\numerals according to literary genre, cultural context, and historical setting.  THEY DON"T EXIST.

 

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Guest
8 minutes ago, Becky said:

Splane please   I think i get it but would like your thoughts

That means it could not refer to a person.  In order for it to refer to a person (such as an anti-christ) it was have to be in the masculine gender.

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davidtaylorjr
2 minutes ago, Origen said:

I understand that is your perception.

No, it is a fact.

 

2 minutes ago, Origen said:

Then please show us in this thread where you comments on understanding numbers\numerals according to literary genre, cultural context, and historical setting.  Sorry, never mind you didn't.   That was me not you.

Sure

On 3/24/2019 at 8:39 AM, davidtaylorjr said:

So are your arguments by the way. 

 

What eactly about that is unbelieveable? The fact that since 1 time when the number 1,000 is symbolic you suddenly take every time the number 1,000 is written to be symbolic? Goodness.

 

15 hours ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Exactly, that is why they must give reasons the 1,000 years, a specific time-frame, is symbolic as opposed to literal. Because it is in a section of Revelation that does not need to be symbolic and is much more natural to be read as literal as opposed to spiritualized and allegorized without cause.

Notice I am talking about specific sections of passages and also that numbers can be symbolic or literal depending on context. So yes, you did, in fact, misrepresent me.  You know good and well all of Revelation is not symbolic yet you refuse to go there and dismiss it as a game because it blows up in your face.

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Just now, davidtaylorjr said:

No, it is a fact.

Opinions vary.

 

Just now, davidtaylorjr said:

Notice I am talking about specific sections of passages and also that numbers can be symbolic or literal depending on context. So yes, you did, in fact, misrepresent me.

Again, opinions vary.

 

1 minute ago, davidtaylorjr said:

You know good and well all of Revelation is not symbolic yet you refuse to go there and dismiss it as a game because it blows up in your face.

Never said it was and in fact said as much.

 

2 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

you refuse to go there and dismiss it as a game because it blows up in your face.

I refused to be taken in and debate simplistic nonsense.

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davidtaylorjr
2 minutes ago, Origen said:

I refused to be taken in and debate simplistic nonsense.

Maybe your problem, and the problem with a lot of covenant theology, is that they overcomplicate Scripture. They spiritualize something that has a plain meaning in context and with grammatical context. 

4 minutes ago, Origen said:

Again, opinions vary.

Not opinion, again it is fact. 

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Guest
11 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Maybe your problem, and the problem with a lot of covenant theology, is that they overcomplicate Scripture. They spiritualize something that has a plain meaning in context and with grammatical context. 

If that is all you got, you got NOTHING.

 

12 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Not opinion, again it is fact. 

Don't care what you think on the matter.

 

Time to move on David.

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