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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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E Morales

Christians Voting For Liberals

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E Morales

@William Okay, The Jews in Israel or Jerusalem living today, Important for today Christian bible prophecies, Past, present, and future. No need to focus on Jerusalem today at all?

I think we’re off this post topic, sorry.  We can go somewhere else?

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Guest William
37 minutes ago, E Morales said:

@William No need to focus on Jerusalem today at all?

No more or less than anyone else. God is calling both Jews and Gentiles today from around the entire globe into true Israel the church of Jesus Christ. 

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E Morales

My question to all those Christians that vote Democrat, how can you vote for someone that stands for a liberal and inmoral lifestyles? The Democrats of today are not the same as the Democrats of the past. They are all liberals, no more middle.

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atpollard

I voted pro-life (anti-abortion), pro-Christian, conservative in EVERY election since 1980 (the year that I turned 18 and was old enough to vote).  That makes 40 years this coming election of listening to the banging of the drum about "appointing Justices" and "laws to protect our religious freedoms" and "economic growth through Conservative taxation and deregulation policies".  I have listened to the "evils of Obama-care" for more than a decade of that time.

 

So where are the benefits that voting conservative have supposed to usher in? 

Has abortion ended? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Has the Government stopped funding the majority of abortions? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Do I have better health care than an unwed mother on welfare? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Have my taxes gone down? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Has my tax money at least lowered the national debt that I pass on to my children? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Are we a more Christian nation?  ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Is the education of our children better?  ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Is the national employment prospect better? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

 

So how has voting conservative for 40 years actually impacted my life?  ... Glad you asked!  I pay more for prescription drugs EVERY YEAR.  My medical co-payments go up EVERY YEAR.  The cost to add my family to this ever worsening private Employer Health Insurance (the Conservative answer to Nationalized Health Care) increases EVERY YEAR. 

 

My bank pays less than 1% interest on savings accounts.  My salary has risen by an average of 4.03% per year for the last 40 years, but my insurance premiums are increasing at over 30% per year.

 

We have spent more on defense than the next 10 countries COMBINED, so am I safe from attack and are our borders secure? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

 

Can someone please explain to me why it is my CHRISTIAN DUTY to vote for a conservative candidate in 2020? ... after 40 years, I am ready to just stay home and say "screw it."

(perhaps I'll move to New York and vote for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez ... how much worse can she do than 40 years of voting conservative?)

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E Morales
1 hour ago, atpollard said:

I voted pro-life (anti-abortion), pro-Christian, conservative in EVERY election since 1980 (the year that I turned 18 and was old enough to vote).  That makes 40 years this coming election of listening to the banging of the drum about "appointing Justices" and "laws to protect our religious freedoms" and "economic growth through Conservative taxation and deregulation policies".  I have listened to the "evils of Obama-care" for more than a decade of that time.

 

So where are the benefits that voting conservative have supposed to usher in? 

Has abortion ended? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Has the Government stopped funding the majority of abortions? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Do I have better health care than an unwed mother on welfare? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Have my taxes gone down? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Has my tax money at least lowered the national debt that I pass on to my children? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Are we a more Christian nation?  ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Is the education of our children better?  ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

Is the national employment prospect better? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

 

So how has voting conservative for 40 years actually impacted my life?  ... Glad you asked!  I pay more for prescription drugs EVERY YEAR.  My medical co-payments go up EVERY YEAR.  The cost to add my family to this ever worsening private Employer Health Insurance (the Conservative answer to Nationalized Health Care) increases EVERY YEAR. 

 

My bank pays less than 1% interest on savings accounts.  My salary has risen by an average of 4.03% per year for the last 40 years, but my insurance premiums are increasing at over 30% per year.

 

We have spent more on defense than the next 10 countries COMBINED, so am I safe from attack and are our borders secure? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

 

Can someone please explain to me why it is my CHRISTIAN DUTY to vote for a conservative candidate in 2020? ... after 40 years, I am ready to just stay home and say "screw it."

(perhaps I'll move to New York and vote for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez ... how much worse can she do than 40 years of voting conservative?)

Thank you for reply, and for voting Republican all these years by doing this you’re still a free man or woman,  and praise God you have a job you have a roof over your head, you can go into any Walmart and buy whatever you like to eat, you can go anywhere you like here in America. Free to enjoy what it has to offer, you have air conditioning so that you can sleep comfortable in the summer, and a heater so you can sleep comfortable in the winter. We do not have a dictator socialist, in the White House, thanks for people like you and me voting. We can visit any hospital receive some of the best medical attention and services in the world. The very best thing we have is freedom of religion, where we can worship our Lord and Savior freely, without fear, I’m not happy all the time with our leaders, but overall I’m happy  I’m a free American Citizen. Yes to Trump 2020. Don’t give up.

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Guest Becky
3 hours ago, atpollard said:

Can someone please explain to me why it is my CHRISTIAN DUTY to vote for a conservative candidate in 2020? ... after 40 years, I am ready to just stay home and say "screw it."

(perhaps I'll move to New York and vote for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez ... how much worse can she do than 40 years of voting conservative?)

The blood of the 60 million babies is not on your hands.  By voting conservative you voice your opinion against what God labels an abomination.. 

At 73 years in a coulee weeks 🙂  I can remember Christians in general getting out of politics,  way back a lot of it having to do with Israel becoming a state. . Dont bother with the school board. Rapture is so close dont bother to vote ..Politics is of the world ..  satan and his bunch is counting on us giving up again.

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atpollard
7 minutes ago, Becky said:

The blood of the 60 million babies is not on your hands.  By voting conservative you voice your opinion against what God labels an abomination.. 

At 73 years in a coulee weeks 🙂  I can remember Christians in general getting out of politics,  way back a lot of it having to do with Israel becoming a state. . Dont bother with the school board. Rapture is so close dont bother to vote ..Politics is of the world ..  satan and his bunch is counting on us giving up again.

The conservatives have held the White House and both houses of Congress several times in the last 40 years.  They could have outlawed abortion at any one of those times if they wished.  TALKING like a Christian gets conservatives elected and TALKING like a socialist gets Liberals elected, but when they get the chance to actually do something, they show that all they really want is to perpetuate the threats so they can keep getting elected.

 

If the Founding Fathers were still alive, they would have led a second revolution to abolish the status quo.  We are guilty of the blood of those children, because we keep electing liars that tickle our itching ears with empty promises.  Conservative politicians are very good for people earning more than $1 million per year (roughly the top 10%) and Liberal politicians are very good for those living off the government dole (probably the bottom 10%).  Neither really cares about the middle 80% except to frighten us into voting for the top 10% or the bottom 10% every few years.

 

To speak of conservatives, whose real goal is to boost wealth for millionaires, as if voting for them is a moral imperative is dishonest.  How many babies have been saved by a “capital gains tax cut”?  How much of your income comes from the sale of stocks?

 

To speak of liberals as if they were Molech and the abortion doctors threw the babies into the fire of their very stomachs is also dishonest.  Yes many of them support gay marriage and abortion rights, but painting Christianity as synonymous with lower taxes and deregulation of business gives them little reason to support anything we value.  Would it really be such a terrible thing if we reduced our armed forces from the present capability of waging war in THREE REGIONS SIMULTANEOUSLY to only being able to wage TWO WARS SIMULTANEOUSLY ... and use the Hundreds of Billions of dollars saved to deal with the health care crisis?

 

Another poster mentioned that I can go into the finest hospitals in the world and get the best medical care in the US.  The reality is that it only true if I have enough insurance and credit and savings to cover the copayments demanded before many medical procedures.  The underinsured receive just enough care to stabilize their condition and then they are released to go home and slowly die.  Hospitals are private business that are only required to stabilize a patient irrespective of ability to pay.  The treatment and medicine needed to actually offer a chance at recovery is only available to those who can pay for it.

 

Over the last 40 years, the trend has been a steady increase in the wealth of the top 10% and a corresponding decrease in the wealth of the bottom 90%.  A trend towards 10% haves and 90% have-nots is exactly the sort of conditions that create the third-world socialist dictatorships that “Conservativism” is alleged to be protecting us from.  The fact is that the Conservative agenda is actually helping to create the socialist movement in the Liberal camp.  
 

This topic was created with the question about how anyone could vote LIBERAL and call themselves a Christian.

The real question is how can anyone help the top 10% impoverish your neighbors by voting for a “Conservative” that has no intention of defending religious liberty or ending abortion (beyond lip service) and call themselves a Christian?

 

There is nothing CHRISTIAN about supporting evil men who tickle your ears.  Hitler told the Christians what they wanted to hear, too, and they all voted for him.

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Guest Becky

So @atpollard do nothing your choice. Personally i do  not equate Christian to conservative,  Although it may seems so. From the chart it shows 2 years when the coward Republicans could have put  a stop to abortion. . 

 

image.png.6550193ee22bad0fe9fe52c9984438f1.png

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Faber
5 hours ago, atpollard said:

Is the national employment prospect better? ... not in 40 years of voting conservative.

 

 I think unemployment is down in the last couple of years.

 

 Furthermore, these political problems are so very often the result of the spiritual condition of the nation. If one (not saying you are) is looking to the "Conservative movement" for the salvation/deliverance from our evils would be replacing what belongs to God.

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th1bill
15 hours ago, Faber said:

 

 I think unemployment is down in the last couple of years.

 

 Furthermore, these political problems are so very often the result of the spiritual condition of the nation. If one (not saying you are) is looking to the "Conservative movement" for the salvation/deliverance from our evils would be replacing what belongs to God.

AMEN!  And like any Christian that lives the faith and has not the Chasm in their heart when Ruach is to reside, pardon my Frence but Damned be both parties, it is the Work of every Christian to do the Perfect Will of YHWH.

 

And about Employment, I do not need too guess, unemployment of any able bodied man has ecome a choice!  Undrer this man I voted for and will vote for, Unemployment is lower than it has been in my 75 years on this planet.

 

I voted against the Arrogant Assed Queen of the Democrats before, this time I will vote for the Independent Bussinessman, President, Mister, Donald Trump, recent conversion to following the Most High YHWH.

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Guest William

Ya know there's two things I currently don't click with. There are two criticisms from the Conservative party of the Liberal / Dems. One, with the impeachment trial Conservatives are complaining nothing is getting done. Think about that for a moment! Do we want the current Congress writing laws?

 

And two, the Liberal / Dems have removed God from the party. No prayer etc. Good! Again I don't understand the Conservative party's criticism of such action. I'm tired of the Lib / Dems twisting scripture suggesting that God supports the LGBT or abortion etc. Glad they'll no longer be blaspheming God!!!

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Guest Becky

Who ever is in power does not matter if 'we' like them or not God has placed them there for His reasons. 

 

Rom 13:1  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 
 

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th1bill
16 minutes ago, Becky said:

Who ever is in power does not matter if 'we' like them or not God has placed them there for His reasons. 

 

Rom 13:1  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 
 

I, so, agree but that revelation of truth does emotionally disturbe those that are self centered to no end.  You go girl.

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Guest theophilus
On 11/14/2019 at 9:25 AM, Becky said:

God keeps His promises so why do they not have the land God gave to Abraham today? 

Jesus came to fulfill those promises but the Jews rejected him.  Something like this happened once before in their history.  God brought them out of Egypt and led them to the land he had promised to give them, but they were afraid to enter it and were forced to spend forty years wandering in the wilderness.

 

After forty years God again brought them back to the promised land and this time they obeyed him and entered it.  Their disobedience delayed the fulfillment of the promise but didn't cancel it.  In the same way their rejection of Jesus as their king only delays the fulfillment of the promises made to Abraham.  The church will be taken out of the world by the Rapture, a seven year time of tribulation will follow, and Jesus will again return to earth.  This time the Jews will acknowledge him as their king and the Millennium will follow.  A description of what life will be like then is found in Ezekiel 40-48.

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Guest Becky

 

2 hours ago, theophilus said:

Jesus came to fulfill those promises but the Jews rejected him.  Something like this happened once before in their history.  God brought them out of Egypt and led them to the land he had promised to give them, but they were afraid to enter it and were forced to spend forty years wandering in the wilderness.

 

After forty years God again brought them back to the promised land and this time they obeyed him and entered it.  Their disobedience delayed the fulfillment of the promise but didn't cancel it.  In the same way their rejection of Jesus as their king only delays the fulfillment of the promises made to Abraham.  The church will be taken out of the world by the Rapture, a seven year time of tribulation will follow, and Jesus will again return to earth.  This time the Jews will acknowledge him as their king and the Millennium will follow.  A description of what life will be like then is found in Ezekiel 40-48.

@theophilus  His word says  Psa_145:13  Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.  Your quote above reads different then the Scriptures. 

 

Who was Jesus talking to when He said this Mat_16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. 

 

When Jesus was preaching do you believe He was speaking of thousands of years beyond as if He did not understand the phrase 'at hand'  Mat_4:17  From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.   He used the same phrase just before His death which was not thousands of years beyond. 
 

You say the Church will be raptured out of this world . Does Holy Spirit go with the Church? 

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Guest Becky
2 hours ago, theophilus said:

Jesus came to fulfill those promises but the Jews rejected him.  Something like this happened once before in their history.  God brought them out of Egypt and led them to the land he had promised to give them, but they were afraid to enter it and were forced to spend forty years wandering in the wilderness.

 

After forty years God again brought them back to the promised land and this time they obeyed him and entered it.  Their disobedience delayed the fulfillment of the promise but didn't cancel it.  In the same way their rejection of Jesus as their king only delays the fulfillment of the promises made to Abraham.  The church will be taken out of the world by the Rapture, a seven year time of tribulation will follow, and Jesus will again return to earth.  This time the Jews will acknowledge him as their king and the Millennium will follow.  A description of what life will be like then is found in Ezekiel 40-48.

The above reads as if  God's covenant with Abraham was conditional on their obedience?  

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E Morales

What I understand, there is going to be a rapture, the Holy Spirit stays here on earth, some will get saved after the rapture, but it will cost them their life. I believe those that are left behind, will have to die for the faith, or except the Mark of the beast. Christ returns again with the saints after the seven years, tribulation period. Then after the thousand year of peace on earth. Sin returns for a short time. When does the holy spirit leaves, I don’t know, but after the seven years at the second coming,  of Christ, sounds correct to me? Then the Holy Spirit returns during the 1000 years. Then for eternity. This is in my opinion, but the Lord only, truly Knows the end time. Men falls short

Edited by E Morales
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Guest Becky
5 minutes ago, E Morales said:

What I understand, there is going to be a rapture, the Holy Spirit stays here on earth, some will get saved after the rapture, but it will cost them their life. I believe those that are left behind, will have to die for the faith, or except the Mark of the beast. Christ returns again with the saints after the seven years, tribulation period. Then after the thousand year of peace on earth. Sin returns for a short time. When does the holy spirit leaves, I don’t know, but after the seven years at the second coming,  of Christ, sounds correct to me? Then the Holy Spirit returns during the 1000 years. Then for eternity. This is in my opinion, but the Lord only, truly Knows the end time. Men falls short

So will you post the Scripture passages that support your view? 

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E Morales

@Becky I’m sorry not at this time, I’m to slow at searching.

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Guest Becky
18 minutes ago, E Morales said:

@Becky I’m sorry not at this time, I’m to slow at searching.

Do you have a online searchable Bible? if not eSword is my choice. 

 

 

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E Morales
1 hour ago, Becky said:

Do you have a online searchable Bible? if not eSword is my choice. 

 

 

Thanks, searches and some denominations, don’t like words like Rapture. They’ll will use words like, caught up in the air.

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Guest theophilus
21 hours ago, Becky said:

 

@theophilus  His word says  Psa_145:13  Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.  Your quote above reads different then the Scriptures. 

 

Who was Jesus talking to when He said this Mat_16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. 

 

When Jesus was preaching do you believe He was speaking of thousands of years beyond as if He did not understand the phrase 'at hand'  Mat_4:17  From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.   He used the same phrase just before His death which was not thousands of years beyond. 
 

You say the Church will be raptured out of this world . Does Holy Spirit go with the Church? 

The promise that some will see the kingdom is followed immediately by the transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus.  Moses represents those who have died and will be resurrected.  Elijah never died, so he represents those who will be taken from the earth in the Rapture.  This was a picture of what the kingdom will be like.

 

21 hours ago, Becky said:

The above reads as if  God's covenant with Abraham was conditional on their obedience?

The covenant was unconditional but the obedience or disobedience of the people could affect the timing of its fulfillment.  The same thing was true of God's promise to Moses that he would lead the Israelites out of Egypt and into a land of their own.

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Guest Becky
2 hours ago, theophilus said:

The promise that some will see the kingdom is followed immediately by the transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus.  Moses represents those who have died and will be resurrected.  Elijah never died, so he represents those who will be taken from the earth in the Rapture.  This was a picture of what the kingdom will be like.

 

The covenant was unconditional but the obedience or disobedience of the people could affect the timing of its fulfillment.  The same thing was true of God's promise to Moses that he would lead the Israelites out of Egypt and into a land of their own.

LOL ok have it both ways .  Thanks for the conversation @theophilus 

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th1bill
21 hours ago, Becky said:

image.png.e6b05a7ff258b4323cc1f585b6f8fb09.png

Good afternoon, younger than I.  Some of us actually strive to live the Word of YHWH understand the Kingdom is here and do our best to live to live worthy of His Presence in our lives.  I like this board because the moderation is performmed by members of the Kingdom.  The Tribulation is coming but not just this minute.

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