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becauseofgrace

Bible Versions - Anyone else KJV only?

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Mary1577979507

@CorneliusCenturion Indeed those who are truly of the Lord can never lose their salvation, nothing can snatch them out of his hands.

 

John 10:28-30 King James Version (KJV)

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

 

I was just curious as to what tait1norman meant by his statement. 

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Wull
On 1/24/2020 at 3:00 AM, becauseofgrace said:

Even though...many of the responses were not answering the two questions I asked at the beginning of all this. 🙂

Don't think I posted anything by way of direct response... Maybe I should have.....but felt that truth was more important than etiquette!

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davidstarcher

 

I don't think anyone should feel pressure to participate by writing especially if they are not confident enough in their understanding of what they believe to be able to articulate it or give answers for it. Sometimes it is better to simply watch, listen, read, and hopefully learn. I didn't come to my own positions overnight or simply adopt them as a tradition and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either.

 

“There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven—

...A time to tear apart and a time to sew together; A time to be silent and a time to speak. “

Ecclesiastes 3 :1,7

 

“He who restrains his words has knowledge, And he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding. Even a fool, when he keeps silent, is considered wise;  When he closes his lips, he is considered prudent. “ Prov 17:27-28

 

“This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.” James 1:19-20

 

  “If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless.  “ James 1:26

 

At the same time I would caution against any thought that as Christians when in a public forum we need “safe spaces” so that we can avoid being triggered. Being willing to listen to opposing viewpoints is part of how we learn by either strengthening our own position as we learn to give answer for it or correct it if we are in error. We are also encouraged in scripture to always be ready to give an answer for the hope that is in you. Knowing how to answer an attack on the reliability of scripture when it comes to variants in the manuscript evidence (which undeniably exist), accusations that scripture simply spread by a giant telephone game, or why different translations(including different KJV translations) read differently is important. Yes that takes work, time, study, thought, and may force us to consider our own cherished beliefs and traditions but ultimately it is to God's glory and our own spiritual defense that we learn to do this.

 

“Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another. “ Prov 27:12

 

“Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, But he who hates reproof is stupid. “ Prov 12:1

 

“but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; “ 1Peter 3:15

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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becauseofgrace
7 hours ago, Wull said:

Don't think I posted anything by way of direct response... Maybe I should have.....but felt that truth was more important than etiquette!

It was ok, I didn't mean it as a criticism. 🙂 I know everyone just started joining in on the current thing that was being spoken on...which turned into a discussion off the topic I had originally asked. I do agree that God's truth is very important - and we should be willing and able to tell others what we believe. There are more these days who passively sit by without caring and being diligent about things of the Lord, which is a sad state of things, and one big reason churches are in the state they are in.

 

Much like these days recorded in Isaiah...
  Isaiah 59:14   And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
 

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Curly Q

I'm interested in your perceptions of the eternal security perspective. I'm curious, CorneliusCenturion, can you participate in the mental exercise of being your own "devil's advocate". By that I mean, can you anticipate how people who believe in eternal security might view those and other similar verses in context? Might you even anticipate other verses that they might introduce to support their beliefs? In debate class at my Christian school, I used to choose the unpopular position like pro-abortion (that I didn't personally believe) to have a bigger challenge. Also, I believe that scriptural truth can stand up to any questioning or doubts. Is this something that you might like to try?

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Curly Q

davidstarcher, I really appreciate your wise and we'll timed words. You show great discernment of when to speak instead of remaining silent. Thank you for the advice of how to navigate these forums as a newcomer to this membership/fellowship. It reminds me of 2 verses in 2 different places in Proverbs about what to do in 2 different sets of circumstances being the wise fool and the foolish fool. 

1- don't answer a fool according to his folly because he can't learn from it

2- do answer a fool according to his folly because he CAN learn from it

 

I always wondered if this was the inspiration behind Shakespeare's use of the "wise fool" as a literary device.

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Faber

  If a person was KJV Only and another wasn't I wonder if this would convince them not to marry one another. The tension would just be too much.

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Lee_v.2

Well, the KJV'er could read aloud to the other and then, in a wonderful act of kindness and love, the KJV'er could read the other's version, say, the ESV, aloud to them, as well.  It would, you know, provide something of a translation.  The KJV'er might have to read real slow to start but, over time, I am sure everything would turn out just fine. 🙂 

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Curly Q
23 hours ago, Faber said:

  If a person was KJV Only and another wasn't I wonder if this would convince them not to marry one another. The tension would just be too much.

I think the level of tension varies depending on the personality traits of the people involved. Shouldn't 2 people in a relationship expect to have differing opinions on many issues without making all of them a "test of fellowship"?

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Curly Q

I'm a KJV'er but I can respect the merits of versions that are translated from either the original Byzantine texts or from the original Alexandrian texts. Obviously I prefer the Byzantine texts. Anyhoo, where would you get Strong's numbers for non-KJV versions. 🤔 LOL.

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Lee_v.2

I am glad for scholars' ability to compare the papyrii and the vellum! 😉👍  And, speaking of Strong's and what not, I have this study bible, called the "Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible" and it has the unabridged version of the commentary in the "Reformation Study Bible" that many of us tote around these days.  However, in the commentary notes, it links to the pertinent confessions and what not, in the back, such as:

  - Westminster Confession of Faith

  - Larger Catechism

  - Shorter Catechism

  - Belgic Confession

  - Heidelberg Catechism

  - Canons of Dort

It has the 1984 NIV translation for the Biblical text, but that is not a deal-breaker... it works fine!  I am so very glad for the work of godly men to provide aids to understanding to the people of God!

 

Edited by Lee_v.2
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JustinJanoski

I use KJV and have used it all my life. I believe it is one of the best translations compared to any of the modern translations.

 

I believe the KJV and Geneva were necessary in that there was no real good english translation available at the time and the men who wrote these translations did it or were commissioned to do it with the intention of making scripture available to english speaking persons. It was a real need and God used them to meet that need.

 

I don't believe any of the newer translations are or were necessary, we had the KJV and Geneva. They are no harder to understand than the modern versions and meet the needs of an english translation. I believe mainly money and a doubtful spirit towards the authenticity of the KJV and Geneva versions were the intentions behind the newer versions.

 

I prefer the KJV or Geneva but I am not adamantly against someone reading a different translation, you can still come to christ and mature as a christian reading a modern version but you must be aware of any errors of the translation you are reading and correct them.

 

In a church or group worship setting I believe that everyone attending should agree on a version and use that as a group so congregational reading and group verse memorization can be performed without any problems. I would expect my wife to read the same version I do for family worship.

 

While more modern translations may have had a mix of good and bad intentions all I can say is the ultimate result of all these new translations has caused people to divide over the word of God, not memorize scripture in unison, and question the authenticity of scripture. Many of the newer versions are copyrighted for the purpose of being able to make profits selling them whereas the KJV is not. We must be cautious as christians over which version of scripture we use and any changes that have been made to it. The foundation of our faith is in scripture and the enemy is going to attack this.

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davidstarcher
7 minutes ago, JustinJanoski said:

 

 

They are no harder to understand than the modern versions and meet the needs of an english translation. 

 

Sorry but that is manifestly false. The English language has changed a lot since the KJV was written.

 

7 minutes ago, JustinJanoski said:

I prefer the KJV or Geneva but I am not adamantly against someone reading a different translation, you can still come to christ and mature as a christian reading a modern version but you must be aware of any errors of the translation you are reading and correct them.

I agree however correct them according to what? Are you aware of the errors in the KJV and do you correct them when you read the KJV?

 

7 minutes ago, JustinJanoski said:

 

While more modern translations may have had a mix of good and bad intentions all I can say is the ultimate result of all these new translations has caused people to divide over the word of God, not memorize scripture in unison, and question the authenticity of scripture.

People divided over the word of God before the KJV and with the KJV. People questioned the authenticity of scripture before the KJV and after it. Having a single translation doesn't change that. The way to address questions of authenticity is to familiarize yourself with the nature of scripture, it's inscripturation, transmission, and the process of translation so that you are able and ready to give a reasoned defence. 

 

7 minutes ago, JustinJanoski said:

Many of the newer versions are copyrighted for the purpose of being able to make profits selling them whereas the KJV is not.

The KJV was originally restricted in its publication by the crown; in other words it was copyrighted.

7 minutes ago, JustinJanoski said:

We must be cautious as christians over which version of scripture we use and any changes that have been made to it. The foundation of our faith is in scripture and the enemy is going to attack this.

I reject the idea of versions of scripture. There are different translations of scripture which are sometimes called different versions because they differ from other english language translations but that  doesn't make them a different version of scripture; they are still translating from the greek texts. Changes according to what? Do you pull out your KJV and if you see a different reading then insist that any difference in reading is an addition or subtraction? If so what makes the KJV the standard instead of just another translation which must also be critically examined?

 

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becauseofgrace

@davidstarcher I have a question...

 

Since you believe that just about any other Bible version is acceptable to use...I can't help wondering why are you so interested in trying to convince others to be against using only the King James Version?  

 

If I got on here and said "I believe in only using the NIV..." I suspect you would be glad to let me think that. But anyone who mentions the KJV, seems to be a different story.

 

Just a thought...since you usually always comment back on here when someone new writes. 

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davidstarcher
4 minutes ago, becauseofgrace said:

@davidstarcher I have a question...

 

Since you believe that just about any other Bible version is acceptable to use...I can't help wondering why are you so interested in trying to convince others to be against using only the King James Version?  

 

If I got on here and said "I believe in only using the NIV..." I suspect you would be glad to let me think that. But anyone who mentions the KJV, seems to be a different story.

 

Just a thought...since you usually always comment back on here when someone new writes. 

If you read my previous posts you would know that I don't believe that just any other translation is acceptable to use and that all of them including the KJV need to be read with understanding and discernment. If you said "I believe in only using the NIV..." I would have as much problem with it as if you If I got on here and said "I believe in only using the KJV." and then gave reasons for it based in ignorance, misinformation, and conspiracy theories. Sadly when people say  "I believe in only using the KJV." the reasons they give for it usually fall into those categories. Even more troubling is that many then use it as an excuse to not have fellowship with those who disagree. 

 

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JustinJanoski
3 hours ago, davidstarcher said:

 

Sorry but that is manifestly false. The English language has changed a lot since the KJV was written.

 

I agree however correct them according to what? Are you aware of the errors in the KJV and do you correct them when you read the KJV?

 

People divided over the word of God before the KJV and with the KJV. People questioned the authenticity of scripture before the KJV and after it. Having a single translation doesn't change that. The way to address questions of authenticity is to familiarize yourself with the nature of scripture, it's inscripturation, transmission, and the process of translation so that you are able and ready to give a reasoned defence. 

 

The KJV was originally restricted in its publication by the crown; in other words it was copyrighted.

I reject the idea of versions of scripture. There are different translations of scripture which are sometimes called different versions because they differ from other english language translations but that  doesn't make them a different version of scripture; they are still translating from the greek texts. Changes according to what? Do you pull out your KJV and if you see a different reading then insist that any difference in reading is an addition or subtraction? If so what makes the KJV the standard instead of just another translation which must also be critically examined?

 

The purpose of this post is to tell what you believe and why you believe it. Looking at the original post "becauseofgrace" intentionally clarified that she did not want this to be a debate. I'm not going to go off topic debating with everyone I disagree with and I don't think you should either. If you want to debate your views on versions/translations of the Bible by all means you are welcome to start a topic on the christian debate section of the forum and have at it with anyone you want.

Edited by JustinJanoski

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davidstarcher
1 minute ago, JustinJanoski said:

The purpose of this post is to tell what you believe and why you believe it. Looking at the original post "becauseofgrace" intentionally clarified that she did not want this to be a debate. I'm not going to go off topic debating with everyone I disagree with and I don't think you should either. If you want to debate your views on versions/translations of the Bible by all means you are welcome to start a topic on the christian debate section of the forum and have at it with anyone you want.

So you believe you are free to spread false information and nobody should question or correct you? 

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JustinJanoski
Just now, davidstarcher said:

So you believe you are free to spread false information and nobody should question or correct you? 

I believe I am free to state what I believe and why I believe it, that is what the original post was asking.

Again this is not a debate this is simply a post asking people what they believe.

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davidstarcher
2 minutes ago, JustinJanoski said:

I believe I am free to state what I believe and why I believe it, that is what the original post was asking.

Again this is not a debate this is simply a post asking people what they believe.

As a Christian neither you or I are free to state untruth and if we do we should expect and desire to be called out on it,

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JustinJanoski
44 minutes ago, davidstarcher said:

As a Christian neither you or I are free to state untruth and if we do we should expect and desire to be called out on it,

What you believe is untuth, I believe is truth. I can throw a bunch of books and evidence at you to support my beliefs and say what you are saying is not truth.

But as a mature adult who understands what the original post said about debating I refuse to make this a debate.

Edited by JustinJanoski

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davidstarcher
5 minutes ago, JustinJanoski said:

What you believe is untuth, I believe is truth. I can throw a bunch of books and evidence at you to support my beliefs and say what you are saying is not truth.

But as a mature adult who understands what the original post said about debating I refuse to make this a debate.

 

If I was as stubborn and confident in what I believed was truth as you are I would have never learned anything from anyone.

You are essentially calling for a safe space where views can be expressed and remain unchallenged even when they are wrong; that is not a mature or christian attitude or the attitude of someone who actually is confident of what they believe. Truth is not relative and throwing books is not an argument. I understand you not wanting to defend the claims you made given that they really aren't defensible. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Wull
15 hours ago, JustinJanoski said:

question the authenticity of scripture.

Amen!! That's been Satan's work since the Garden of Eden. 

Muslims highlight the confusion caused by modern versions, and use it to claim that the Bible is corrupted, unlike their Koran.

15 hours ago, JustinJanoski said:

The foundation of our faith is in scripture and the enemy is going to attack this.

2 Corinthians 2:17
[17]For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

 

It's been a constant battle....

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Wull
15 hours ago, davidstarcher said:

Sorry but that is manifestly false. The English language has changed a lot since the KJV was written.

Nowhere near as much as the proponents of modern versions try to claim. There are only a handful of words in the AV that are not in current use - though perhaps in a more limited way than in previous centuries.

Modern versions often throw in a lot of their own difficult words, too - as well as tending to have a more awkward, laboured, stilted turn of phrase. Just one example - "satrap"..... Not exactly obvious what that means, without looking into it. 

15 hours ago, davidstarcher said:

People divided over the word of God before the KJV and with the KJV. People questioned the authenticity of scripture before the KJV and after it.

By that reasoning, we might as well legalise theft, get rid of speed limits, etc..... people will commit crime anyway...........

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Wull
15 hours ago, davidstarcher said:

they are still translating from the greek texts.

Two different Greek texts. One complete, one riddled with errors. Don't blur the differences.

15 hours ago, davidstarcher said:

If so what makes the KJV the standard instead of just another translation which must also be critically examined?

Will we ever have a Bible that we don't have to scrutinise, or "critically examine"?? Won't be any time soon, it seems, because the Critical Text isn't settled - they're still working on it....

It also sounds like you're denying that God has kept His Word pure through the ages.

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Wull
11 hours ago, davidstarcher said:

So you believe you are free to spread false information and nobody should question or correct you?

What false information?

10 hours ago, davidstarcher said:

 

 

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