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Bible Versions - Anyone else KJV only?

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davidstarcher
36 minutes ago, Wull said:

He has lied and used mockery when I have challenged him on Facebook. (I have screenshots). One pastor who uses the AV, reached out to White to try to have some dialogue, but with little worthwhile success.

 

If your interaction with me is any indication of what you tried with him it's not surprising that you would be offended by his responses as you are with mine. I suggest the problem isn't with him or me but with you.  

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Wull
8 minutes ago, davidstarcher said:

If your interaction with me is any indication of what you tried with him it's not surprising that you would be offended by his responses as you are with mine. I suggest the problem isn't with him or me but with you.  

Offended? I never said that I was offended! Offence is a personal matter - the issues at stake are far more serious. Neither he nor you stick to honesty - and you appear here to use what you guess was my manner of speaking to him, to justify his lies (as well as mockery). 

If you think that lies are justified when annoyed by someone, then you have a seriously skewed understanding of God's Law. 

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CharlesS

Gentlemen, I would like to remind you all to remain polite and Christian in your conversations here. This is a place to civilly discuss your opinions and differences, not to insult, degrade, or attack each other. Everyone understands things differently as we all have our own personal relationship with God and are in different places in our walk with him.

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JustCountry

At church our Pastor and Elder both read the ESV though will pull from other translations if it translates better for a particular text. My personal Bible is NKJV and I probably will always stick with that one. My mom has the Geneva Bible and really likes the notes in it. I grew up with studying KJV and NKJV so those are easiest for me to read through and understand.

I don't think the more modern translations sound right when it comes to Psalms or Proverbs. Though I've only compared the NASV and ESV to the KJV/NKJV. The flow doesn't work well for them. But I can't say that ESV or NASV or RSV are wrong, that wouldn't be correct. There are verses (and my pastor would point them out as well) that they shouldn't have changed in the newer translations. On the other hand I've noticed a few spots where the ESV expounds on a passage a bit better than the KJV. The NKJV seemed just fine to me and it's fairly similar to the KJV. The later ones were grabbing from a larger spectrum of writings and yet the end results don't seem very different from what I can tell.

Here's a couple short clips that helped expound on the translation differences. I don't agree that NLT or NIV should be ones to even look at as they don't hold to the same system of translation aka word for word as the ESV or KJV do. But as long as you're reading a "formal" translated version for study I think you'll be just fine. 

Arguing or "debating" over KJV vs. ESV or other translations is kind of pointless. If you enjoy the Geneva great! If you enjoy ESV that's good as well. I may not enjoy listening to or reading from that one but it shouldn't cause division in the Body. The only time we should have issue would be if someone is claiming that KJV or ESV or some other version is THE ONLY right one. That would be very firmly wrong and false. Do you find one more accurate than another in various passages of the Bible? That's very possible. I think it wouldn't be too far fetched to say that some passages or wording in one version are more or less accurate compared to others. I have yet to see any of them that have denounced Christ as God or dismissed the trinity though. At least not in the ESV, NASV, or NKJV. So, is it worth division in the Body in the light of this? I think not. Prefer what translation you will. We all can still read KJV or ESV and come to the same conclusions. We don't conclude that Christ is no longer raised from the dead or that David didn't slay Goliath with a stone or even that God isn't both the Judge and the Justifier of mankind after reading one over another. So basic question: Which bible version do you enjoy reading from... Me: NKJV or KJV or Geneva - You??? and thus leave it at that as it get's a bit petty arguing about nothing that could possibly grow and encourage one another in our walk with Christ. Talk passages you think come across as more accurate in one vs. the other if you want, but really that's about as far as you should ever go. I don't think there should ever be an issue with versions unless there's a version that is obviously inaccurate, made by a cult, or someone is claiming The Message or another paraphrase "Bible" as their Bible of choice.

Just my humble observation and opinion. 

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Wull
11 hours ago, CharlesS said:

Gentlemen, I would like to remind you all to remain polite and Christian in your conversations here. This is a place to civilly discuss your opinions and differences, not to insult, degrade, or attack each other. Everyone understands things differently as we all have our own personal relationship with God and are in different places in our walk with him.

Galatians 3:1,3
[1]O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[3]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

That wasn't very "polite" of Paul.....

 

1 Timothy 5:20
[20]Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Titus 1:12-13
[12]One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
[13]This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

 

When dishonesty is used to defend a cause, it has to be called out. Being "nice" and tolerant towards attacks on the truth, has allowed error and heresy to creep into the church down through history. 

Think of all the things that John the Baptist, Jesus and Paul had to say to and about the Pharisees, Judaisers and heretics. We should get our definition of "Christian" speech and conduct from them. 

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Wull
2 hours ago, JustCountry said:

I have yet to see any of them that have denounced Christ as God or dismissed the trinity though.

They just reword some verses that show His Deity. We must remember that the devil is subtle - outright denial would be too obvious. That was his tactic in Genesis 3, and has been ever since.

 

2 hours ago, JustCountry said:

thus leave it at that as it get's a bit petty arguing about nothing that could possibly grow and encourage one another in our walk with Christ.

If only it were that minor an issue.....

The modern versions remove, or cast doubt on, a large number of words, verses and passages of Scripture. 

The scale of the problem can be seen here:

https://www.tbsbibles.org/resource/collection/9D62A49E-9FF0-410B-B3CB-23A3C5EAE1CF/A-Textual-Key-to-the-New-Testament.pdf

3 hours ago, JustCountry said:

unless there's a version that is obviously inaccurate, made by a cult,

When the Greek text is assembled by a committee that includes Bible-deniers and a Jesuit, with an ecumenical aim, it's not so different from a version made by a cult - unless the translators completely redo the work of the textual committee.....

 

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Faber
16 hours ago, Wull said:

They just reword some verses that show His Deity.

 

  The NASB (and others) show the supreme Deity of Christ more clearly in several passages such as John 14:14; Colossians 3:22 (Lord refers to Jesus); Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; etc.

 

 

EDIT

 I will list the passages in order as they appear in the Bible where many modern versions demonstrate the supreme Deity of the Lord Jesus as compared with the KJV. Perhaps someone may know of others (?)

 

John 1:18

Theos (God) is applied unto the Lord Jesus.

 

John 14:14

The Lord Jesus affirms that He is the proper recipient of prayer - and since only God is to be prayed to...

     a. Robert Reymond: Jesus declared that he will answer the prayers of his disciples (John 14:13), but equally significant for our purpose, he represents himself as One to whom prayers may properly be addressed. In verse 14, Jesus stated again that he himself will answer his disciples' prayers - surely an implicit claim to deity since one would have to be divine to hear, in all the languages of the world, the myriads of prayers being offered up to him at any one moment and then wisely to answer each prayer (A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith, pages 232-233). 


Acts 8:22

The Lord (in reference to Jesus) is the proper recipient of prayer.


Acts 15:40

The Lord (in reference to Jesus) is the proper recipient of worship.

 The Greek word for "committed" is paradidōmi. It is the same Greek word used for "commended" in Acts 14:26. Being commended to the grace of God involves worship of God for the care of said individuals while being committed to the Lord Jesus involves the very same thing.


Ephesians 5:21

See Colossians 3:22.


Colossians 3:22

The Lord is in reference to Jesus.

     a. Douglass Moo: The "fear of the Lord" is, of course, a prominent theme in the Old Testament, combing a sense of appropriate awe in the presence of God in submission to his will. But the theme is by no means absent from the New Testament (e.g., 2 Cor. 7:1; 1 Pet. 2:17; Rev. 11:18; 14:7; 15:4; 19:5), where, in a move typical of the "Christological monotheism" of the early church, the Lord is sometimes defined as Christ (Acts 9:31; 2 Cor. 5:11; Eph. 5:21). This is certainly the case here, as the high Christology of the letter to the Colossians as a whole is again brought to bear on the ordinary situation of the Christian household (The Letters to the Colossians and Philemon, The Pillar New Testament Commentary, page 311). 


Titus 2:13

Theos (God) is much more clearly applied unto the Lord Jesus.

 

1 Peter 3:15

We are to sanctify Christ as Lord in our hearts.

 The Greek word for "sanctify" is hagiazō and in Matthew 6:9 the same word is used in reference to the Father's name being "hallowed" in worship. Just as the Father's name is to be hallowed/sanctified in worship so too is the Lord Jesus. Furthermore, 1 Peter 3:15 is cited from Isaiah 8:13 which speaks of the attitude a person ought to have in worshiping YHWH. Just as the Father is to be worshiped because of His absolute holiness so too the Lord Jesus is to be worshiped because of His absolute holiness. Notice also that Peter applied YHWH from this Old Testament passage unto the Lord Jesus.

     a. Kenneth Wuest: Peter was exhorting these Jews to set apart their Messiah, the Lord Jesus as Jehovah, Very God, in their hearts, giving first place to Him in obedience of life (Word Studies in the Greek Testament: 1 Peter, volume 2, page 88) 


2 Peter 1:1

Theos (God) is much more clearly applied unto the Lord Jesus.


Jude 1:4

     a. R. C. Trench: it is to Christ, but to Christ as God, that the title is ascribed (Synonyms of the New Testament, kyrios, despotēs, see the third paragraph). 

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/trench/section.cfm?sectionID=28


Revelation 14:1

By "having His name" in reference to the Son the service/worship (latreuō) being rendered in Revelation 22:3-4 also encompasses the Lord Jesus.

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CharlesS

@Wull

Are you that great apostle Paul? Did you walk with Christ and hear the truth from His lips? Who are you and who is anybody else, to think of themselves so highly to not listen to a rebuke?

Your behavior here should be one humbleness, we are brethren and we should act as that. Your dialogue is as of one who would seek simply to argue and fight, while insisting his is the only view that is correct. This place is not a place for those who wish to simply squabble and fight with theology as if we were great theologians. This is a place where we can polity discuss our views, so that we can learn about each other and hopefully find that one with whom we might add to and strengthen our Lord's kingdom.

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Spiff
On 1/17/2020 at 4:15 PM, Wull said:

James White is a friend of modern-day heretics, so even if his views on Scripture were correct, he's not a reliable guide. 

Because Jesus NEVER had a heretic or a reprobate in his inner circle. 

Edited by Spiff

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CorneliusCenturion

@Wull  @davidstarcher A few things to consider before responding to a post of another person with who you disagree. Keep in mind that what I write below is very much applicable for myself as well.

 

1. Is our response embeded in prayer?

Did we pray to ask the Lord for wisdom to respond to someone we do disagree with? In James we read, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." (James 1:5). 

 

2. Is our response with love?

This does not mean that our answers always have to be nice. Jesus was at times very direct and it could hurt others. However, at the same time we see that He was angry and felt pity for such people at the same time. "And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their [Pharisees] hearts..." (Mark 3:5). If that is not the case, friends, let us be reminded of what Paul writes, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal." (1 Cor 13:1). We can have the knowledge of the whole world, and the best arguments, but without love and pity it will not please God. See also the summary of the Ten Commandments, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind...And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Matt. 22:37-39).

 

At moments we see another person using a translation of which we believe is corrupted. Do we feel compassion and pity for such persons? Do we even pray to God for that person that He will take care of their soul because we believe that they deceive themselves? (I speak to myself as well). 

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davidstarcher

Very good Dividing Line today. It ran unusually long but it had a lot of discussion regarding TR onlyism which is basically KJV onlyisim one step backwards. About 34 minutes in he introduces a video discussing  textual critical issues with Dr. Peter Gurry, James Snapp Jr., and Dr. Jeffrey Riddle, from the Talking Christianity–Apologetics YT channel and He actually begins playing the video at the 1 Hr 5 minute mark. This is a very important discussion as it truly exposes the circular nature of the TR Only position as it is being promoted today. As usual James White plays portions of the video and then pauses the video and gives his own analysis at different times. 

 

 

 

 

The original video without James White's analysis can also be found in two parts at:

 

 

 

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