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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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fivepointer

Please help convince me to not convert to Catholicism...

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Guest William
27 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

No W,

It's due to terminology.

How do you explain justification?

It IS by Christ alone and faith alone,,,which is affirmed by the CC ....

To the less discerning.....

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GodsGrace
1 hour ago, William said:

To the less discerning.....

You talkin' ta me?

 

image.png.61806d1cd305cbe15ed0afe0711c0d87.png

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GodsGrace

@William

 

Did you see that link I posted re justification?

 

Here it is again....

 

This is from Wikipedia:

 

 

 

And this, instead, is straight from the horse's mouth:

(which do YOU prefer to believe?)  see especially paragraph 15...

 

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

 

 

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Guest William
2 hours ago, GodsGrace said:

@William

 

Did you see that link I posted re justification?

 

Here it is again....

 

This is from Wikipedia:

 

 

 

And this, instead, is straight from the horse's mouth:

(which do YOU prefer to believe?)  see especially paragraph 15...

 

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

 

 

Yes I read it. Read it before responding to you and stated that I will address the Catholic and Protestant differences. The Reformation isnt over. The Catholics still reject the 5 solas with emphasis on sola fide, sola gratia, solo Christo. There's a difference between apostate Catholics and Protestant theology and there's a difference in our standard of authority.

 

Has the Catholic church also now rejected purgatory? What about indulgences? If the Catholic church actually believes now in the 5 solas (but only disagrees in terminology) then they shouldn't be teaching either. 

 

The Catholic church has been in error and continues to lead others astray. 

 

Look doesn't matter to me whether you flat out defend the apostate Catholics, believing and conveying Catholic doctrine while only rejecting the CC authority makes a person nothing less than a rebellious Catholic. 

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Deidre

It has not rejected indulgences. As a matter of fact, Pope Francis put out this elaborate 'letter' to all Catholics last year around Easter time, about indulgence, and all the rules that one had to follow in order to gain these special blessings from God. It's just blasphemy, simply put. But, that's what has kept the RCC in power for centuries - fear and magic. If *I* do these things, and follow  what the Papacy tells me, I'll ''earn'' heaven. I'll earn my salvation. As if believing in Christ isn't enough. As if Jesus' death on the cross wasn't enough, *I* as a follower of Jesus, need to keep jumping through all these hoops that this one and only church throws out, and then...I will be saved. As long as the RCC tells me so.

 

That's pretty much how ''she'' operates. Catholics would of course argue against that, but if you are believing that you need indulgences, then you don't know Jesus. I don't think the Pope knows Jesus, sadly, otherwise he wouldn't be suggesting to do these things. 

 

An article last year about the Pope granting indulgences.

 

WWW.BBC.COM

Pope Francis' visit to Ireland in August will be the first papal visit to the country for 40 years.

 

 

Edited by Deidre
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Innerfire89
17 hours ago, GodsGrace said:

 

Hi IF,

Sorry for delay.

 

Do you believe the sin nature is dead after salvation?

Or do you believe it is under submission?

We are new creatures in Christ with a new nature, no longer slaves to sin but slaves to righteousness. Sin still dwells within but it is no longer our master.

 

17 hours ago, GodsGrace said:
Quote

We're not going to agree on the above word IF.

They (the false teachers) have escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord,  this would mean that they are saved.

 

IF, they are AGAIN entangled in them (the defilements)...the AGAIN clearly shows that they had left the world and then went back to it.  They were:

 

In the world       unsaved

Left it                 saved

Went back to it   unsaved

 

verse 21 clearly states that they knew the way of righteousness and that they turned their back on the holy commandment. 

 

verse 22 states that they RETURNED to their vomit....

 

If they returned to it,,,,means that they had been somewhere else for a time...

that would be salvation and they returned to being lost.

It seems that you're completely ignoring the "if."

Let's say they did know the way of righteousness, how does that make them any differnt from any one who hears and rejects the gospel?

 

If they were saved and they are dogs and pigs, would that mean that all Christians are dogs and pigs but the only difference is that if don't lose our salvation we just didn't return to our vomit?

A Christian changes, but the dog never changes, it just goes back to its vomit.

 

To not derail this topic further I'll try to my a thread explaining how 2 Peter 2 does not teach that salvation can be lost.

There's probably a thread like that already. 

17 hours ago, GodsGrace said:

What part would my will have in my salvation then?

(If it's God that sees it through)

God is sovrine over your will, there is no one to point for our salvation except God alone.

Phillipans 2:13.

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GodsGrace
7 hours ago, Innerfire89 said:

We are new creatures in Christ with a new nature, no longer slaves to sin but slaves to righteousness. Sin still dwells within but it is no longer our master.

 

It seems that you're completely ignoring the "if."

Let's say they did know the way of righteousness, how does that make them any differnt from any one who hears and rejects the gospel?

 

If they were saved and they are dogs and pigs, would that mean that all Christians are dogs and pigs but the only difference is that if don't lose our salvation we just didn't return to our vomit?

A Christian changes, but the dog never changes, it just goes back to its vomit.

 

To not derail this topic further I'll try to my a thread explaining how 2 Peter 2 does not teach that salvation can be lost.

There's probably a thread like that already. 

God is sovrine over your will, there is no one to point for our salvation except God alone.

Phillipans 2:13.

I agree to your first paragraph,,,

but, as noted, I do disagree with 2 Peter and the word IF.

 

Philippians 2:13

for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

 

Agreed.  It is God who is at work within us, through the Holy Spirit, as Jesus said in John 16:7 that it would be good for Him to go away so the Holy Spirit could come to convict the world of their sin since Jesus is going to the Father and will no longer be in this world.

 

The Holy Spirit guides us and helps us to do the will of God...as it does please God when we do His will.

 

Did you start a post on 2 Peter?

 

Edited by GodsGrace

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GodsGrace
10 hours ago, Deidre said:

It has not rejected indulgences. As a matter of fact, Pope Francis put out this elaborate 'letter' to all Catholics last year around Easter time, about indulgence, and all the rules that one had to follow in order to gain these special blessings from God. It's just blasphemy, simply put. But, that's what has kept the RCC in power for centuries - fear and magic. If *I* do these things, and follow  what the Papacy tells me, I'll ''earn'' heaven. I'll earn my salvation. As if believing in Christ isn't enough. As if Jesus' death on the cross wasn't enough, *I* as a follower of Jesus, need to keep jumping through all these hoops that this one and only church throws out, and then...I will be saved. As long as the RCC tells me so.

 

That's pretty much how ''she'' operates. Catholics would of course argue against that, but if you are believing that you need indulgences, then you don't know Jesus. I don't think the Pope knows Jesus, sadly, otherwise he wouldn't be suggesting to do these things. 

 

An article last year about the Pope granting indulgences.

 

WWW.BBC.COM

Pope Francis' visit to Ireland in August will be the first papal visit to the country for 40 years.

 

 

They make a lot of $$ with indulgences are prayers for the dead.

That won't be abolished anytime soon...

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Innerfire89
3 hours ago, GodsGrace said:

I agree to your first paragraph,,,

but, as noted, I do disagree with 2 Peter and the word IF.

 

Philippians 2:13

for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

 

Agreed.  It is God who is at work within us, through the Holy Spirit, as Jesus said in John 16:7 that it would be good for Him to go away so the Holy Spirit could come to convict the world of their sin since Jesus is going to the Father and will no longer be in this world.

 

The Holy Spirit guides us and helps us to do the will of God...as it does please God when we do His will.

 

Did you start a post on 2 Peter?

 

I did, here's a link.

 

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Deidre
2 hours ago, GodsGrace said:

They make a lot of $$ with indulgences are prayers for the dead.

That won't be abolished anytime soon...

One of their many displays of blasphemy. 😞

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Deidre

This isn't to anyone in particular, but we (members here) shouldn't have to defend against Catholic apologists. I don't know why anyone on this site is defending a false religion like Catholicism. Makes me sad. If you're a Catholic and afraid to admit that, just own it. It would at least make these discussions easier. 😞

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Guest Becky
6 minutes ago, Deidre said:

This isn't to anyone in particular, but we (members here) shouldn't have to defend against Catholic apologists. I don't know why anyone on this site is defending a false religion like Catholicism. Makes me sad. If you're a Catholic and afraid to admit that, just own it. It would at least make these discussions easier. 😞

While i agree we should also note some folks need to hash things over and over to gain a complete understanding. What better place then a protestant community to satisfy that need? Again Deidre i agree with ya if i was not part of staff i would simply not read it. There will come a time when enough is enough,. 🙂

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Deidre
3 minutes ago, Becky said:

While i agree we should also note some folks need to hash things over and over to gain a complete understanding. What better place then a protestant community to satisfy that need? Again Deidre i agree with ya if i was not part of staff i would simply not read it. There will come a time when enough is enough,. 🙂

If that's what they're doing, I totally agree. But, I can't help but wonder if their desire is to convert us, not the other way around. Not that we are responsible for converting anyone, that is only done by the Holy Spirit, but just that they are pro-Catholic, without saying that, and just arguing with us in hopes that we start to believe that Catholicism is the right way. 

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Faber

 Great point Deidre. There comes a point where it reaches that stage of sowing discord among the brethren.

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Deidre

Yea, Faber, even Jesus said if you go to a village and they won't listen, shake the dust from your sandals. I've just decided to stop debating with the person(s) who do this, because after a while, I realize that their intents aren't genuine, but rather to convince me of their thinking. Just admit you're a Catholic, so we know what we're dealing with. 😅

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th1bill
On 4/18/2017 at 11:21 PM, fivepointer said:

Hi, my name is James. I hope this is an appropriate use of the forum and not in violation of any etiquette or rules. If not, I apologize.

I'm posting to a few different forums in the hope/prayer that people will share with others and help me in my journey as I navigate some questions I have about Protestantism v. Catholicism. I'm hoping to pursue that journey here:

 

https://inlimbosite.wordpress.com/

 

Grace and Peace,

James

James,

I'm not at all certain why you want any man to pierce your nose and to lead you anywhere.  I have friends in different church buildings, around the world and looking at their Fruit, most all of them are lost and by the same measure, some produce the most Christ-like Fruit one can ever find.

 

I have a couple of Catholic friends, one a Family Lawyer and another is a Driver and both minister through the RCC.  YHWH calls those of us that listen into service where He choses.

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GodsGrace
4 hours ago, Deidre said:

One of their many displays of blasphemy. 😞

Is it blasphemy?

Isn't it wrong doctrine?

 

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th1bill
On 3/30/2019 at 4:14 PM, GodsGrace said:

Is it blasphemy?

Isn't it wrong doctrine?

 

I stand miffed by your question.  Can you explain the difference you perceive between the two categories?

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atpollard
16 minutes ago, th1b.taylor said:

I stand miffed by your question.  Can you explain the difference you perceive between the two categories?

Blasphemy is a belief that is directly against God ... (like teaching that Jesus didn’t really die on the cross)

Wrong Doctrine is a belief that may be wrong, but does not negate salvation ... (as a Particular Baptist, I think that baptism is for believers and not for babies, so I think Covenant Baptism is a wrong doctrine and Presbyterians think that Believers Baptism is a wrong doctrine).

 

That is the difference thatI see between the two categories.

The RCC teaches both Blasphemy (coredemptrix, Queen of Heaven) and Wrong Doctrines.

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GodsGrace
13 hours ago, th1b.taylor said:

I stand miffed by your question.  Can you explain the difference you perceive between the two categories?

I agree with @atpollard

 

Also about the Catholic Church.

Some of what they teach goes beyond incorrect doctrine....

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Deidre

The fact that the RCC leads people astray imo, makes it a false faith. Even if there are ''sprinklings'' of truths here and there, they lead people astray by teaching that one needs the RCC to pave the way to Jesus. Of course, ''she'' won't come out and state that, but it's in her teachings, that ''she'' feels the need to add and subtract from Scripture, and the Bible warns of that. There are many awesome Catholics throughout the world, but at some point, it becomes the responsibility of everyone to understand what it is that they're following, and contributing their tithes too, as well. 

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Guest Becky

Most all religions have a sprinkling of truth.  Some things turn from goofy ideas to cults. Some paint a beautiful picture of family it is only skin deep. (LDS)

 

A card was sent my husband when he became ill It gives me the jitters to read it .. it is asking Mary to light your path Stating it was the queen of heaven that gave us the Light.  

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Faber
4 hours ago, Becky said:

it is asking Mary to light your path Stating it was the queen of heaven that gave us the Light.  

Isaiah 45:20

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th1bill

I am neither Catholic nor YHWH/Yashuah ha'Mashiah nor Ruah.  I judge fruit, as per Matthew 7, and the church buildings, all of them, are over run with rotten fruit.  At the same time, careful examination reveals some good fruit, all over.

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