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Faber

Is it proper to worship the Holy Spirit?

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Faber

Since God[*1] is to be worshiped and the Holy Spirit is God it is therefore proper to worship the Holy Spirit.

 

[*1] Steven Tsoukalas: Though I fully adhere to the distinction of the three persons of the Trinity, I also adhere to their unity. Thus, when the Son is prayed to, the Spirit and the Father hear the prayer; and when the Son answers He does so in union with the Father and the Spirit (Knowing Christ in the Challenge of Heresy, page 112, footnote #100).

 

A. Isaiah 6:3 (cf. Revelation 4:8)

And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!” (ESV)

1. Robert Jamieson, Andrew Robert Fausset and David Brown (Isaiah 6:1): I saw also the Lord - here 'Adonaay (Hebrew #136); Yahweh (Hebrew #3068) in Isaiah 6:5. Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isaiah 6:10, according to John 12:41...The words of Isaiah 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Acts 28:25-26) to the Holy Spirit. Thus the Trinity, in unity is implied; as also by the thrice "Holy" (Isaiah 6:3).

http://www.studylight.org/commentari.../isaiah-6.html

 

B. Matthew 28:19

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. (NASB)

In water baptism the believer makes an "appeal to God for a good conscience" (1 Peter 3:21). Since the Holy Spirit is included in this "name" He (as well as the Father and the Son) is in view when this liturgical action takes place.

1. Benjamin B. Warfield: This is a direct ascription to Yahweh, the God of Israel, of a threefold personality, and is therewith the direct enunciation of the doctrine of the Trinity. We are not witnessing here the birth of the doctrine of the Trinity; that is presupposed. What we are witnessing is the authoritative announcement of the Trinity as the God of Christianity by its Founder, in one of the most solemn of His recorded declarations. Israel had worshipped the one only true God under the Name of Yahweh; Christians are to worship the same one only and true God under the Name of "the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost." This is the distinguishing characteristic of Christians; and that is as much as to say that the doctrine of the Trinity is, according to our Lord's own apprehension of it, the distinctive mark of the religion which He founded. (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Trinity, See #13 "The Baptismal Formula")

http://www.internationalstandardbibl...trinity-1.html

 

C. Acts 1:24-26

(24) And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

(25) That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

(26) And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. (KJV)

Although I believe this prayer is primarily addressed to the Lord Jesus there is ample evidence that the Holy Spirit[*2] is also in view (as well as the Father). To begin with the Holy Spirit fully knows the hearts of all (Romans 8:26-27; 1 Corinthians 2:10).[*3] He was the One that showed Matthias was the new apostle (cf. Acts 1:2). In fact, in Acts 1:20 the Greek word for bishoprick (episkopē) means overseer and according to Acts 20:28 the Holy Spirit is said to be responsible for fulfilling the task of selecting overseers (episkopos). Therefore, the lots were cast by those praying in order to know the selection of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:26) in which Matthias was to take (Acts 1:25; cf. Acts 1:20).

 

[*2] Kenneth Berding (Acts 1:2): Furthermore, although not stated explicitly, can there be any doubt that when believers prayed in Acts 1:24-25 - "Lord, you know everyone's heart, Show us which one of these two you have chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place" - that in Luke's theology, the "showing" was via the Spirit (cf. Acts 1:2, 5, 8, 16; 2:4; 10:19; 11:12, 28; 13:2 etc.)? (Who Searches Hearts and What Does He Know in Romans 8:27?, Journal of Biblical and Pneumatological Research, Volume 5, 2013, page 101)

 

[*3] The "depth" (Greek: bathos) of God's omniscience as described in Romans 11:33 are the very same "depths" (Greek: bathos) that the Holy Spirit fully knows (1 Corinthians 2:10).

 

D. Acts 13:2-4

(2) While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

(3) Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

(4) So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia and from there they sailed to Cyprus. (NASB)

The Holy Spirit knows the hearts[*4] of those that pray and responds to the prayer[*5] by stating, "Set apart for Me..." adding that "I have called them."[*6]

 

[*4] Having such knowledge demonstrates that the Holy Spirit is omniscient (God).

https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...ean-omniscient

 

[*5] Being God the Holy Spirit is the "Hearer of prayer" (Psalm 65:2).

 

[*6] "Me" and "I" express that the Holy Spirit is a Person (Acts 13:2) while His actions in association with supreme worship denote His Deity. Furthermore, that prayer was rendered unto the "Lord" (in reference to Jesus) coupled with the fact that Paul and Barnabas were "sent out by the Holy Spirit" (Acts 13:4) connects with Isaiah 48:16 in that "the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit."

 

E. 2 Corinthians 13:14

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. (NASB)

This passage constitutes a prayer to all 3 members of the Trinity.

1. Albert Barnes: In regard to this closing verse of the Epistle, we may make the following remarks:

(1) It is a prayer; and if it is a prayer addressed to God, it is no less so to the Lord Jesus and to the Holy Spirit. If so, it is right to offer worship to the Lord Jesus and to the Holy Spirit.

(2) there is a distinction in the divine nature; or there is the existence of what is usually termed three persons in the Godhead. If not, why are they mentioned in this manner? If the Lord Jesus is not divine and equal with the Father, why is he mentioned in this connection? How strange it would be for Paul, an inspired man, to pray in the same breath, "the grace of a man or an angel" and "the love of God" be with you! And if the "Holy Spirit" be merely an influence of God or an attribute of God, how strange to pray that the "love of God" and the participation or fellowship of an "influence of God," or an "attribute of God" might be with them!

(3) the Holy Spirit is a person, or has a distinct personality. He is not an attribute of God, nor a mere divine influence. How could prayer be addressed to an attribute, or an influence? But here, nothing can be plainer than that there were favors which the Holy Spirit, as an intelligent and conscious agent, was expected to bestow. And nothing can be plainer than that they were favors in some sense distinct from those which were conferred by the Lord Jesus, and by the Father. Here is a distinction of some kind as real as that between the Lord Jesus and the Father; here are favors expected from him distinct from those conferred by the Father and the Son; and there is, therefore, here all the proof that there can be, that there is in some respects a distinction between the persons here referred to and that the Holy Spirit is an intelligent, conscious agent.

(4) the Lord Jesus is not inferior to the Father, that is, he has an equality with God. If he were not equal, how could he be mentioned, as he here is, as bestowing favors like God, and especially why is he mentioned first? Would Paul, in invoking blessings, mention the name of a mere man or an angel before that of the eternal God?

(5) the passage, therefore, furnishes a proof of the doctrine of the Trinity that has not yet been answered, and, it is believed, cannot be. On the supposition that there are three persons in the adorable Trinity, united in essence and yet distinct in some respects, all is plain and clear. But on the supposition that, the Lord Jesus is a mere man, an angel, or an archangel, and that the Holy Spirit is an attribute, or an influence from God, how unintelligible, confused, strange does all become! That Paul, in the solemn close of the Epistle, should at the same time invoke blessings from a mere creature, and from God, and from an attribute, surpasses belief. But that he should invoke blessings from him who was the equal with the Father, and from the Father himself, and from the Sacred Spirit sustaining the same rank, and in like manner imparting important blessings, is in accordance with all that we should expect, and makes all harmonious and appropriate.

http://www.studylight.org/commentari...ians-13.html#1

 

F. Revelation 1:4-5

(4) John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,

(5) and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood. (NASB)

This is a prayer to all 3 Persons of the Trinity by John to bless the seven churches to whom he is writing.

1. Marvin Vincent: Paul nowhere joins the Spirit with the Father and the Son in his opening salutations. The nearest approach is 2 Corinthians 13:13. The reference is not to the seven principal angels (Revelation 8:2). These could not be properly spoken of as the source of grace and peace; nor be associated with the Father and the Son; nor take precedence of the Son, as is the case here. Besides, angels are never called spirits in this book. With the expression compare Revelation 4:5, the seven lamps of fire, “which are the seven Spirits of God:” Revelation 3:1, where Jesus is said to have “the seven Spirits of God.” Thus the seven Spirits belong to the Son as well as to the Father (see John 15:26). The prototype of John's expression is found in the vision of Zechariah, where the Messiah is prefigured as a stone with seven eyes, “the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth” (Zechariah 3:9; Zechariah 4:10). Compare also the same prophet's vision of the seven-branched candlestick (Zechariah 4:2).

Hence the Holy Spirit is called the Seven Spirits; the perfect, mystical number seven indicating unity through diversity (1 Corinthians 12:4). Not the sevenfold gifts of the Spirit are meant, but the divine Personality who imparts them; the one Spirit under the diverse manifestations. Richard of St. Victor (cited by Trench, “Seven Churches”) says: “And from the seven Spirits, that is, from the sevenfold Spirit, which indeed is simple in nature, sevenfold in grace.”

http://www.studylight.org/commentari...i?bk=re&ch=1#1

 

G. Notable Citations

1. Andrew E. Hill: By way of worship in the early church, the Jewish Christianity of the first century a.d. facilitated the shift from the theocentric worship characteristic of Judaism to the Christocentric (and even Trinitarian) worship that is the hallmark of Christianity (Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology, Worship - 3rd to the last paragraph).

http://www.studylight.org/dictionari...view.cgi?n=745

2. Wayne Grudem: We are to pray only to God, who alone is omnipotent and thus able to answer prayer and who alone is omniscient and therefore able to hear the prayers of all his people at once. By virtue of omnipotence and omniscience, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are also worthy of being prayed to, but this is not true of any other being (Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine, page 407).

3. Charles Spurgeon: Come, Holy Spirit, we can do nothing without thee. We solemnly invoke thee, great Spirit of God! thou who didst rest on Abraham, on Isaac and on Jacob; thou who in the night visions speaketh unto men. Spirit of the Prophets, Spirit of the Apostles, Spirit of the Church, be thou our Spirit this night, that the earth may tremble, that souls may be made to hear thy word, and that all flesh may rejoice together to praise thy name. Unto Father, Son and Holy Ghost, the dread Supreme, be everlasting praise. Amen. (New Park Street Chapel, Southwark on Tuesday Night, December 31, 1855)

http://www.romans45.org/spurgeon/sermons/0059.htm

Edited by Faber
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mrtsail

Yes! The holy spirit inspires worship.

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Sue D.

But we're not to Worship the Holy Spirit.

 

We Are to worship the Lord God. Exodus 20.

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Guest William
But we're not to Worship the Holy Spirit.

 

 

Doxology.thumb.jpg.0a4080aa4cdf920b0729d4d745be32db.jpg

 

Is the Holy Spirit God?

 

How can one divine person not be worshiped if worship is directed towards One God in Three Persons? - John 4:24

 

God bless,

William

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Sue D.

Are all the songs we sing doctrinally correct? I just looked up the verses listed at the end of the song. None of them included the Holy Spirit. The song talks about Praising the three of them, not Worshiping them.

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Guest William
Are all the songs we sing doctrinally correct? I just looked up the verses listed at the end of the song. None of them included the Holy Spirit. The song talks about Praising the three of them, not Worshiping them.

 

What do you mean by worship? Psalm 22:3

 

And do you think it possible to worship the Father and Son without the Holy Spirit? John 4:24; Philippians 3:3; Ephesians 2:18; 2 Corinthians 3:17

 

God bless,

William

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Sue D.

Well -- Jesus Christ - the 2nd person of the Godhead died on the cross -- the Holy Spirit didn't. The Holy Spirit is the part that comes to indwell each believer --Jesus Christ doesn't.

 

 

Yes, God Is Spirit, but not the Holy Spirit.

 

Phil 3:3 We worship God In the Spirit -- not And the Spirit.

 

So, yes it Is.

 

Do we worship the Son of God? Don't we only Worship God, the Father?

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Guest William
Well -- Jesus Christ - the 2nd person of the Godhead died on the cross -- the Holy Spirit didn't. The Holy Spirit is the part that comes to indwell each believer --Jesus Christ doesn't.

 

 

Yes, God Is Spirit, but not the Holy Spirit.

 

Phil 3:3 We worship God In the Spirit -- not And the Spirit.

 

So, yes it Is.

 

Do we worship the Son of God? Don't we only Worship God, the Father?

 

Lemme leave you with this and you can study it when convenient. I'm off to Bible Study:

 

Nicene Creed:

 

"We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

 

“And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.

 

“And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

 

God bless,

William

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Faber
The Holy Spirit is the part that comes to indwell each believer --Jesus Christ doesn't.

 

Besides not addressing any of the passages I cited in the OP your assertion that Jesus Christ doesn't indwell each believer is incorrect.

 

The underlined below is mine.

 

Ephesians 3:17

so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love. (NASB)

 

Colossians 1:27

to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (NASB)

 

See also John 14:23

Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. (NASB)

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Faber
Sue D. said:
Do we worship the Son of God? Don't we only Worship God, the Father?

 

In the past I thought of starting a thread concerning the worship of the Lord Jesus but there were so many passages involved I didn't know which to focus on.

 

Please go here:

 

 

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Guest William

@Faber

 

For the sake of dialogue, brother, lemme ask you whether there is any Scripture which forbids worship unto the Holy Spirit? And how can one divine person not be worshiped if worship is directed towards One God in Three Persons?

 

As you know I am creedal and confessional, and adhere to the Nicene Creed. Lemme ask you about the truths conveyed in the last paragraph concerning the Holy Spirit. Do you believe they are accurate and convey central truths which are essential to Christianity?

 

Nicene Creed:

 

"We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

 

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.

 

“And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

 

As you know, my question tests your orthodoxy, and begs the question whether you adhere to the Creed.

 

By the way I believe you answered the question here:

 

Steven Tsoukalas: Though I fully adhere to the distinction of the three persons of the Trinity, I also adhere to their unity. Thus, when the Son is prayed to, the Spirit and the Father hear the prayer; and when the Son answers He does so in union with the Father and the Spirit (Knowing Christ in the Challenge of Heresy, page 112, footnote #100).

 

Here is a distinction of some kind as real as that between the Lord Jesus and the Father; here are favors expected from him distinct from those conferred by the Father and the Son; and there is, therefore, here all the proof that there can be, that there is in some respects a distinction between the persons here referred to and that the Holy Spirit is an intelligent, conscious agent.

 

Just asking for a clarification. I think Persons is rather confusing given today's definition. The best I can explain how God can be Three Persons is suggesting that One God in Three Persons are distinct enough to be individuals though not so individual to have separate wills, but individual and distinct enough to commune together.

 

God bless,

William

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Faber

I agree.

The Holy Spirit is definitely God and therefore ought to be worshiped.

 

I believe when the comment was made earlier by Sue D. that the 3 are praised but not worshiped is really a false dichotomy. By praising the 3 an individual is worshiping the 3.

 

One of my favorite (but often overlooked) passages concerning His Deity is found in Acts 21:11. It reads:

And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, "This is what the Holy Spirit says: 'In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'" (NASB)

In the Old Testament when a prophet announced, "Thus says the LORD..." it was a proclamation by the prophet to what God had told him to say. Likewise, the Holy Spirit communicates His sovereign will to Agabus in order for him to relate it to Paul.

1. Friedel Selter: In Acts 21:11 Agabus (like the prophets of the OT; cf. Isa. 20:2; Jer. 13:1 ff.) carried out a symbolic action with Paul's girdle (a long cloth worn about the waist), to indicate the coming arrest of Paul. "The accompanying word of interpretation 'Thus says the Holy Spirit!' corresponds to the OT 'Thus says Yahweh!'" (E. Haenchen, The Acts of the Apostles, 1971, 602) (NIDNTT 3:121, Ready).

2. John Gill: and said, thus saith the Holy Ghost; who was in Agabus, and spoke by him, and foretold some things to come to pass; and which did come to pass, and is a proof of the foreknowledge, and so of the deity of the blessed Spirit.

http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/geb/acts-21.html

 

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Guest William
I agree.

The Holy Spirit is definitely God and therefore ought to be worshiped.

 

I believe when the comment was made earlier by Sue D. that the 3 are praised but not worshiped is really a false dichotomy. By praising the 3 an individual is worshiping the 3.

 

One of my favorite (but often overlooked) passages concerning His Deity is found in Acts 21:11. It reads:

And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, "This is what the Holy Spirit says: 'In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'" (NASB)

In the Old Testament when a prophet announced, "Thus says the LORD..." it was a proclamation by the prophet to what God had told him to say. Likewise, the Holy Spirit communicates His sovereign will to Agabus in order for him to relate it to Paul.

1. Friedel Selter: In Acts 21:11 Agabus (like the prophets of the OT; cf. Isa. 20:2; Jer. 13:1 ff.) carried out a symbolic action with Paul's girdle (a long cloth worn about the waist), to indicate the coming arrest of Paul. "The accompanying word of interpretation 'Thus says the Holy Spirit!' corresponds to the OT 'Thus says Yahweh!'" (E. Haenchen, The Acts of the Apostles, 1971, 602) (NIDNTT 3:121, Ready).

2. John Gill: and said, thus saith the Holy Ghost; who was in Agabus, and spoke by him, and foretold some things to come to pass; and which did come to pass, and is a proof of the foreknowledge, and so of the deity of the blessed Spirit.

http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/geb/acts-21.html

 

Very nice. I grew with you there.

 

God bless,

William

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jahanzeb ali qureshi

I think it is the most important thing is to worship the God as we cannot worship anyone else. If we want to be blessed by the grace of almighty God then we would have to worship and ask him for help. There is no doubt that the God is the holy spirit and he deserves to be worshiped.

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Sue D.
@Faber

 

For the sake of dialogue, brother, lemme ask you whether there is any Scripture which forbids worship unto the Holy Spirit? And how can one divine person not be worshiped if worship is directed towards One God in Three Persons?

 

As you know I am creedal and confessional, and adhere to the Nicene Creed. Lemme ask you about the truths conveyed in the last paragraph concerning the Holy Spirit. Do you believe they are accurate and convey central truths which are essential to Christianity?

 

Nicene Creed:

 

"We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

 

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.

 

“And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

 

As you know, my question tests your orthodoxy, and begs the question whether you adhere to the Creed.

 

By the way I believe you answered the question here:

 

 

 

Just asking for a clarification. I think Persons is rather confusing given today's definition. The best I can explain how God can be Three Persons is suggesting that One God in Three Persons are distinct enough to be individuals though not so individual to have separate wills, but individual and distinct enough to commune together.

 

God bless,

William

 

 

 

It would appear that there Are parts of the Nicene Creed that I don't agree with. The part about 'one baptism for the remission of sins'. Baptism is Not required for the remission sins. Baptism is Only the outward identification of a person as a born-again believer. That which has already taken place in the person's heart. That decision is Not sealed through baptism. That is what the Holy Spirit does at the moment Of our acceptance Of.

 

There's probably no verse Forbiding the worship of the Holy Spirit, but neither is it Encouraged. The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead. A person responds To the convicting power Of the Holy Spirit. Maybe it's simply that some people are more emotional than others. In our church services, I've observed people who are really into the praise worship music and raise their arms in response To. I have no problem with that. It's their choice. My emphasis is on worshiping God, the Father. During our Communion Service-- our emphasis is on what Jesus Christ did on the cross for us. Shedding His blood and the bread representing His body what it went through. The role of the Holy Spirit is convicting, teaching, comforting , communicating to God through Jesus Christ what we are feeling when we don't have the words to express for ourselves.

 

The freedom of choice is involved ?!

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Guest William
The freedom of choice is involved ?!

 

Of course there is, but the Creed's conveyance of Scriptural truth is as essential as can be in Christianity. For example, you're not understanding what the Creed is conveying about baptism and how it relates to the catholic church.

 

I'll leave it for you to decide whether you need to study the Scriptures from which truth is professed through the Creed. Just remember, this Creed is a test of orthodoxy by your profession, and generally it is a safe litmus test . When someone rejects the Creed they put themselves outside of all Christian denominations. Whether that matters to you or not - that's up to you. All denominations agree to these essential truths of the Christian faith as conveyed by the Creed. Rejecting the Creed places a body or individual outside of a Christian denomination and indicates a congregations or individual Apostasy, and whether that body or individual are aligned with Sects, or Cults.

 

God bless,

William

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Sue D.

I don't agree that not agreeing with the entire Creed is putting a person outside of all Christian denominations. The Nicene Creed is mostly Baptistic. It Sounds like the Creed is promoting baptisimal regeneration. I'm most definitely Not aligned with any sect or cult. I simply do not believe that baptism by immersion is essential To salvation. Because what happens to those who are not able to Be baptized -- like the thief on the cross. His was a death-bed conversion -- he would die and shortly after be with Christ. Or kids who are saved at a neighborhood Bible Club or VBS and want to be baptized, but their parents are from a denomination that had the child sprinkled and don't believe in a need For baptism and won't let the child Be baptized. Is that young person fully saved or not?

 

Romans 10:9 - 10 says that with the heart one believes and then confession is made unto salvation. Nothing about baptism. Baptism Is an activity that is done in front of others to demonstrate the decision that has already been made inwardly.

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ConfessionalLutheran

I'd argue against the premise that one could claim to be a Trinitarian, much less a Christian, while denying the critical role that the Holy Spirit plays as one of the Triune Godhead.

Article I: Of God.

1] Our Churches, with common consent, do teach that the decree of the Council of Nicaea concerning the Unity of the Divine Essence and concerning the Three Persons, is true and to be believed without any doubting; 2] that is to say, there is one Divine Essence which is called and which is God: eternal, without body, without parts, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness, the Maker and Preserver of all things, visible and invisible; and 3] yet there are three Persons, of the same essence and power, who also are coeternal, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. And the term "person" 4] they use as the Fathers have used it, to signify, not a part or quality in another, but that which subsists of itself.

 5] They condemn all heresies which have sprung up against this article, as the Manichaeans, who assumed two principles, one Good and the other Evil: also the Valentinians, Arians, Eunomians, Mohammedans, and all such. 6] They condemn also the Samosatenes, old and new, who, contending that there is but one Person, sophistically and impiously argue that the Word and the Holy Ghost are not distinct Persons, but that "Word" signifies a spoken word, and "Spirit" signifies motion created in things.  
 

 

 

 

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Faber
On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

B. Matthew 28:19

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. (NASB)

In water baptism the believer makes an "appeal to God for a good conscience" (1 Peter 3:21). Since the Holy Spirit is included in this "name" He (as well as the Father and the Son) is in view when this liturgical action takes place.

1. Benjamin B. Warfield: This is a direct ascription to Yahweh, the God of Israel, of a threefold personality, and is therewith the direct enunciation of the doctrine of the Trinity. We are not witnessing here the birth of the doctrine of the Trinity; that is presupposed. What we are witnessing is the authoritative announcement of the Trinity as the God of Christianity by its Founder, in one of the most solemn of His recorded declarations. Israel had worshipped the one only true God under the Name of Yahweh; Christians are to worship the same one only and true God under the Name of "the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost." This is the distinguishing characteristic of Christians; and that is as much as to say that the doctrine of the Trinity is, according to our Lord's own apprehension of it, the distinctive mark of the religion which He founded. (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Trinity, See #13 "The Baptismal Formula")

http://www.internationalstandardbibl...trinity-1.html

 

I think another passage that relates to the worship of the Holy Spirit (as well as the Father and the Son) is 1 Peter 3:21. It connects with Matthew 28:19 since one is dedicating himself/herself in worship to the singular Name of the Triune God in baptism.

 

1 Peter 3:21

Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (NASB, the underlined is mine)

 The Greek word for "appeal" is eperōtēma. Upon being water baptized a person appeals (prays) to the Triune God for a good (clear/clean) conscience.[*1]

 

1. Wayne Grudem: Peter's phrase, "an appeal to God for a clear conscience," is another way of saying "a request for forgiveness of sins and a new heart." When God gives a sinner a "clear conscience," that person has the assurance that every sin has been forgiven and that he or she stands in a right relationship with God (Heb. 9:14 and 10:22 speak this way about the cleansing of one's conscience through Christ). To be baptized rightly is to make such an "appeal" to God: it is to say, in effect, "Please, God, as I enter this baptism which will cleanse my body outwardly I am asking you to cleanse my heart inwardly, forgive my sins, and make me right before you." Understood this way, baptism is an appropriate symbol for the beginning of the Christian life (Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine, page 974).

2. Marvin Vincent: So Lange: “The thing asked may be conceived as follows: 'How shall I rid myself of an evil conscience? Wilt thou, most holy God, again accept me, a sinner? Wilt thou, Lord Jesus, grant me the communion of thy death and life? Wilt thou, O Holy Spirit, assure me of grace and adoption, and dwell in my heart?' To these questions the triune Jehovah answers in baptism, 'Yea!' Now is laid the solid foundation for a good conscience. The conscience is not only purified from its guilt, but it receives new vital power by means of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/vnt/1-peter-3.html

 

 

[*1] A clear/pure conscience is necessary in our life long worship of God (2 Timothy 1:3; cf. 2:22).

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JesusIsFaithful
On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

Since God[*1] is to be worshiped and the Holy Spirit is God it is therefore proper to worship the Holy Spirit.

 

I believe in the Triune God, but I have to ask why there is no specific scripture that teaches us to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son?  Of course, to counter such a question, is there any scripture that would reprove such a practice?  Yes, there is.

 

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

 

Now reading verse 22 above, it sets the premise for what that judgment is that every believer is to follow.  Sounds serious to me.

 

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

Now to be fair, if the verse did not ended the way it did, leaving out that bold part, one could see a leeway for the practice of honoring the Holy Spirit in worship, but BECAUSE of the latter part of verse 23, it removes any leeway anout including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.  This is the judgment that hangs over every believer.

 

So I would ask why does it have to be that way.

 

The Lord has pointed out what happens in those supernatural events that calls upon the Holy Spirit to come where there is confusion in the midst of the assembly where God is not the author of like Ernest Anegley's Healing Crusade, the "holy laughter" movement, the Toronto's Blessings, and the Pensacola Outpourings, and even the other calling for believers to follow after in seeking to receive the baptism with the holy Ghost with the evidence of tongues.  I could have been confused as to why calling on the Holy Spirit and assuming that was the Holy Spirit that had responded, why is that rudiment is linked to confusion as tongues without interpretation would be as well. 

 

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers

 

John 10:1-5 says why when coming to God that by seeking the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit was already in believers  by faith in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel is why they are winding up following a stranger's voice, let alone, be falling in those movements of the "Spirit".  That is considered as "cause and effect". 

 

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

 

Jesus reiterates that He is the door in John 10:7-9, and any spirit or any one or any church tries to be the stepping stone to God, that is the thief.

 

So when we read this ofetn times verse of John 14:6, we should be reading that Jesus was telling us more than just the way to salvation, but how we are to approach God the Father in anything, and that includes worship.

 

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.....13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

 

So who answers prayers?  The Son does it so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.  Does the Holy Spirit concur in giving that credit to answers to prayers to Jesus?  Yes because the Spirit will glorify Him in that way.

 

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

So does God's glory really rests on the Son?

 

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

 

Even Paul goes on to emphasize the mind of Christ we are to have and that is this obedience called for in worship.

 

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

Now don't get me wrong;   the Holy Spirit is God and one of the 3 Witnesses within the One God, but there is no scripture teaching for the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.  It is an assumption made by men that because the Holy Spirit is God, therefore it is okay to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.  The amended Nicene creed of 381 A.D. was the one that added that line for including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, and the internet will try to provide scripture to "prove" it but Matthew 3:16-17 doesn't really do that.  All Matthew 3:16-17 testifies of is to the Triune God where the Father & the Holy Spirit both had borne witnesses of the Son in fulfilling His words of John 8:17 in how and why the Father's witness from heaven is true, because the witness of the Holy Ghost was there upon the Son too.

 

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

 

So that is how by His words, the Father's witness of the Son is true at His water baptism because of the added witness of the Holy Ghost's in Matthew 3:16-17, BUT it does not really teaches the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

 

This is important because sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes, honoring the Holy Spirit in worship can be problematic wherein spirits can come in and cause confusion, and because the believers were focusing on the Holy Spirit in worship, they automatically assume that it was the Holy Spirit in spite of the confusion that ensues in the assembly even though God is not the author of confusion.  What makes the matter worse, is that the next time, they invoke the Holy Spirit to come with signs of confusion and it happens again.

 

Now some believers will say... that those "movements of the "spirit" " was not the real Holy Spirit when there is people falling down backwards and doing crazy stuff in confusion, BUT they called on the Holy Spirit in worship and it happened.  So how can you reprove such a phenomenon?  By heeding His words.  That is what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7:24-27 for why believers are falling for that spirit in those movements.

 

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

That is Jesus saying that a time will come after He had ascended to the Father where false prophets will come into the church and broaden the narrow way we are supposed to come to God the Father by.  That is the iniquity by which those in those movements of the "spirit" can attest to doing wonderful things in His name by in Matthew 7:21-23.

 

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

Jesus exposes the movements of the "spirit" even more  by citing how many believers will fall down because of this iniquity. 

 

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

In 1994, the 700 Club reported that the "holy laughter" movement was no longer a streamlined Pentecostal/Charismatic event, because it was happening across the denominations in Catholics, and other Protestant churches.  So why would God allow that to happen?  Because churches are not striving to enter through the strait gate;  they are not keeping their eyes on the Bridegroom and allowing the spirits of the antichrist to come inbetween them & the Son in coming to God the Father by.

 

So if any of you wonder why this was happening when YOU KNOW that those movements of the "spirit" that are filled with confusion and people falling down by lack of self control is not of the Lord, then heed His words that the only way to come to God teh father by is by way of the Son and the only way to honor the Father in worship is by honoring the Son as we are led by the Spirit of God to do because that is His witness too through us in worship.

 

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

 

That is the only way the indwelling Holy Spirit can fulfill His task in bearing witness of the Son in glorifying the Son in worship and that is through us.  Only the spirits of the antichrists would try to steal the spotlight from the Son in worship in drawing attentions to them to seduce believers to chase after them in receiving them for a sign.  God will permit them to suffer a strong delusion for believing that lie that they can receive the holy Spirit again apart from salvation even for a sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation for why it qualifies as a stranger's voice as gained by another calling and thus another way.  Paul would remind beleivers the traditions taught of us as to when we had received the Spirit of promise by faith in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

Anyway, I hope the Lord has helped me to articulate my concerns for the body of Christ and how His warnings does require us to narrow the way we come to God the Father by in worship and how the Father wants us to honor Him by;  and that is by honoring the Son in worship in glorifying the Son and by doing so, glorifies God the Father;  Jesus is the Bridegroom as we are to be the bride of Christ in relating to God the Father through the Son, Whom we are married to.

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Faber
On 7/31/2018 at 11:16 AM, JesusIsFaithful said:

the Holy Spirit is God and one of the 3 Witnesses within the One God, but there is no scripture teaching for the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.  It is an assumption made by men that because the Holy Spirit is God, therefore it is okay to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.  The amended Nicene creed of 381 A.D. was the one that added that line for including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

 I have already provided passages from the Bible concerning the worship of the Holy Spirit (see the OP).

 In terms of being baptized with the Holy Spirit, I believe it occurs only once when a person is placed into the New Testament church. See "Acts 11:16" in post #4.

https://www.christforums.com/forums/topic/5299-debate-cornelius-and-baptism/

 

1 Kings 8:38-39
whatever prayer...is made...then hear in heaven...for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men. (NASB)

 I believe the Bible is teaching us here that the only proper recipient of prayer is God, because as the heart-knower of all, He hears (and of course has the perfect ability to respond to) all audible and inaudible prayers (by one or myriads of people) in all different languages at all times and in all places all the while knowing if they were done in sincerity or in deception. Having this ability demonstrates that He is omniscient.[*1]

 

 Since the Holy Spirit fully knows the hearts of all establishes that He is the proper recipient of prayer.

 

 

Revelation 15:3-4
(3) And they sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and amazing are your deeds, O Lord God the Almighty! Just and true are your ways, O King of the nations!
(4) Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify your name? For you alone are holy.  All nations will come and worship you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.” (ESV, the underlined is mine)
 Revelation 15:4 teaches that God “alone” is holy. The same Greek word for “holy” (ὅσιος) is also used in Titus 1:8 as a noble quality of what people (overseers) are to aspire to. Therefore, what Revelation 15:4 is teaching (based on the very next clause) is that because God alone is absolutely holy He alone is to be worshiped. His absolute holiness forms the basis for this worship that is to be ascribed unto Him.

 

 Since it is obvious that the Holy Spirit is absolutely holy then He too is the proper recipient of worship.

 

 

 

[*1] https://www.christforums.com/forums/topic/5196-kardiognōstēs-does-it-mean-omniscient/

 

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JesusIsFaithful
2 hours ago, Faber said:

 I have already provided passages from the Bible concerning the worship of the Holy Spirit (see the OP).

Thank you for your patience, Brother Faber, but in all fairness, I did present scripture to the contrary.  Since scripture can not go against scripture, should we take what is plainly stated on the topic rather than scripture that infers or implies?  But, Lord be willing, I shall go back and address the scripture you have provided, albeit I had only seen them as proving that the Holy Spirit is God rather than proving the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son whereas the scripture I have provided proves why honoring the Son is the only way we can honor God the Father by in worship as led by the Holy Spirit in us to do, because that is what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do thru us.

2 hours ago, Faber said:

 In terms of being baptized with the Holy Spirit, I believe it occurs only once when a person is placed into the New Testament church. See "Acts 11:16" in post #4.

https://www.christforums.org/forums/topic/5299-debate-cornelius-and-baptism/

Lord, be willing, I shall get to that after going over the verses in the OP, but thanks for sharing that link to another thread.  I, too, believe that a believer can only receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit at one time also and that is at his salvation at the calling of the gospel, and by no other calling, especially NOT BY the apostate calling to receive the Holy Spirit again or apart from salvation with the evidence of tongues or by the sign of tongues when tongues are not supposed to serve as a sign to the already saved believers for anything, especially as proof or a sign that the saved believer has received the Holy Spirit apart from salvation, which is the falling away from the faith spoken of.

 

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

 

This is important to the discussion being how there are too many supernatural events occurring when the focus is on honoring the Holy Spirit specifically in worship and even after such an event by invoking the Holy Spirit to come and fall on them when He was already in them to begin with.  If you are one of the believers that believe that those movements of the "spirit" is not of the Lord, then how can you explain why God would allow that to happen when that focus is on the Holy Spirit or when praying TO the Holy Spirit in worship?  No good tree will produce an evil fruit and no evil tree can produce a good fruit. 

 

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

Therefore honoring the Holy Spirit in worship is the tree that cannot be the Father's will nor how to approach Him by in worship, especially when believers are falling down in such "worship" of the Holy Spirit.  So how does one avoid it?

 

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

Let's see Luke's presentation of Matthew 7:13-27 on how to heed His sayings to avoid it.

 

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

 

So Jesus meant what He had said as all invitations in coming to God the Father in anything is by the only way of the Son and that includes coming to God the Father in worship.

 

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

It is a work of iniquity to approach God the Father in worship by any other way.

 

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.....7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

2 hours ago, Faber said:

 

1 Kings 8:38-39
whatever prayer...is made...then hear in heaven...for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men. (NASB)

 I believe the Bible is teaching us here that the only proper recipient of prayer is God, because as the heart-knower of all, He hears (and of course has the perfect ability to respond to) all audible and inaudible prayers (by one or myriads of people) in all different languages at all times and in all places all the while knowing if they were done in sincerity or in deception. Having this ability demonstrates that He is omniscient.[*1]

 

 Since the Holy Spirit fully knows the hearts of all establishes that He is the proper recipient of prayer.

I see you are citing the NASB.  It is understandable why you would think that Romans 8:27 was talking about the Holy Spirit, but let us consider what the NASB actually says.

 

Romans 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the [a]saints according to the will of God.  NASB

 

The bold part of verse 27 is to single out Who that "He" is.  This "He" is separate from us in searching our hearts is also separate from the Spirit to know the mind of.  Who is this He that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit that intercedes for us?

 

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.  13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. 14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.  NASB

 

Jesus Christ is the Word of God that searches oru hearts and thus He is the One that knows the mind of the Spirit to intercede for us.

 

 

2 hours ago, Faber said:

 

 

Revelation 15:3-4
(3) And they sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and amazing are your deeds, O Lord God the Almighty! Just and true are your ways, O King of the nations!
(4) Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify your name? For you alone are holy.  All nations will come and worship you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.” (ESV, the underlined is mine)
 Revelation 15:4 teaches that God “alone” is holy. The same Greek word for “holy” (ὅσιος) is also used in Titus 1:8 as a noble quality of what people (overseers) are to aspire to. Therefore, what Revelation 15:4 is teaching (based on the very next clause) is that because God alone is absolutely holy He alone is to be worshiped. His absolute holiness forms the basis for this worship that is to be ascribed unto Him.

 

 Since it is obvious that the Holy Spirit is absolutely holy then He too is the proper recipient of worship.

May I point out that song is specified as being the Song of the Lamb in bold and underlined in Revelation 15:3-4?

 

The Holy Spirit was not crucified on the cross.  The Son was.  That is why the glory of God rests on the Son in worship, and that IS the mind of Christ we are to have in worship for the obedience Paul has spoken of.

 

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed.............

2 hours ago, Faber said:

Hopefully, the Lord will lead me to that thread in due time.  I hope to address the scripture you had provided in the OP next, and then that other thread before this one.  Thank you for sharing.  I am counting on the Lord to correct me and edify me by His words written as we all have to weigh all the scripture together in order to get to the heart of the truth since scripture cannot go against scripture since we all should desire to abide in truth with His help.

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Faber

Hello JIF,

 

 1. Since we agree on the baptism with the Holy Spirit I see no further need to discuss it under this topic. I'd like to stick with passages I previously cited in the OP and elsewhere in this thread and discuss them as they relate to the worship rendered unto the Holy Spirit. Thus far it is you who is pitting Scripture against Scripture, but I'll await your response to each of the passages I cited in the OP.

 

2.  The Holy Spirit "fathoms everything 1 Cor 2:10" (BDAG 3rd Edition, eraunaō, page 389).

Since the Holy Spirit is omniscient it follows that He fully knows the hearts of all (1 Corinthians 2:10).

 

3. You misunderstand why I cited 1 Kings 8:38-39 and Revelation 15:3-4. 

 1 Kings 8:38-39 establishes that prayer can (and should) be rendered unto God since He alone fully knows the hearts of all. Since the Holy Spirit fully knows the hearts of all (see point #2) He is the proper recipient of prayer. 

 Revelation 15:3-4 establishes that worship can (and should) be rendered unto God since He alone is absolutely holy. Since the Holy Spirit is absolutely holy then He is the proper recipient of worship.

 

 

2 Corinthians 3:16-17

but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. (NASB)

 

 When one turns to the Lord it means to worship Him.[*1] Now the "Lord" primarily refers to the Lord Jesus (cf. 3:14), but in turning to Jesus in worship as the "Lord" we see in v. 17 that the Holy Spirit is included as to Whom one is turning to - "the Lord is the Spirit." He, as the Giver of eternal life, ought to worshiped (2 Corinthians 3:6).

 

[*1] Psalm 22:27 (cf. Leviticus 19:4; 2 Chronicles 15:3-4)
All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You. (NASB, the underlined is mine)

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JesusIsFaithful
On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

Since God[*1] is to be worshiped and the Holy Spirit is God it is therefore proper to worship the Holy Spirit.

 

[*1] Steven Tsoukalas: Though I fully adhere to the distinction of the three persons of the Trinity, I also adhere to their unity. Thus, when the Son is prayed to, the Spirit and the Father hear the prayer; and when the Son answers He does so in union with the Father and the Spirit (Knowing Christ in the Challenge of Heresy, page 112, footnote #100).

And yet, all power has been given unto the Son.

 

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

Other truths are;  The name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ as that is the name His disciples water baptized others by.

 

Jesus did not take off to leave us hanging.  He dwells in us and is with us always as the Good Shepherd He is leading us by the Holy Spirit in us.

 

Now in regards to that all power being given unto the Son is applied to answers to prayers as the Son specified that He will do it.

 

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

 

Is the Father and the Holy Spirit involved in the answer of prayers?  Of course, but the credit and the glory goes to the Son in answering those prayers for the purpose that the Father be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

 

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

So what happens in those movements of the "Spirit" where believers are falling backwards and so forth in confusion by addressing the Holy Spirit in worship to come and fall on them, that is NOT the Holy Spirit answering those prayers, now is it?

 

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

The Holy Spirit is not serving as the Mediator between us and the Father;  Jesus is in regards to prayers as He alone is at that throne of grace.  Do we see His words in the plain light for what His words are actually saying or not?

 

 

On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

 

A. Isaiah 6:3 (cf. Revelation 4:8)

And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!” (ESV)

1. Robert Jamieson, Andrew Robert Fausset and David Brown (Isaiah 6:1😞 I saw also the Lord - here 'Adonaay (Hebrew #136); Yahweh (Hebrew #3068) in Isaiah 6:5. Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isaiah 6:10, according to John 12:41...The words of Isaiah 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Acts 28:25-26) to the Holy Spirit. Thus the Trinity, in unity is implied; as also by the thrice "Holy" (Isaiah 6:3).

http://www.studylight.org/commentari.../isaiah-6.html

The Holy Spirit being holy is not going to step outside of His role and mission in leading the believers to honor and glorify the Son in worship.  The Holy Spirit is not leading believers to testify of Himself in seeking His own glory in worship.

On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

 

B. Matthew 28:19

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. (NASB)

In water baptism the believer makes an "appeal to God for a good conscience" (1 Peter 3:21). Since the Holy Spirit is included in this "name" He (as well as the Father and the Son) is in view when this liturgical action takes place.

1. Benjamin B. Warfield: This is a direct ascription to Yahweh, the God of Israel, of a threefold personality, and is therewith the direct enunciation of the doctrine of the Trinity. We are not witnessing here the birth of the doctrine of the Trinity; that is presupposed. What we are witnessing is the authoritative announcement of the Trinity as the God of Christianity by its Founder, in one of the most solemn of His recorded declarations. Israel had worshipped the one only true God under the Name of Yahweh; Christians are to worship the same one only and true God under the Name of "the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost." This is the distinguishing characteristic of Christians; and that is as much as to say that the doctrine of the Trinity is, according to our Lord's own apprehension of it, the distinctive mark of the religion which He founded. (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Trinity, See #13 "The Baptismal Formula")

http://www.internationalstandardbibl...trinity-1.html

The Holy Spirit being included in the name of that water baptism is hardly teaching believers to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son.  It is a total different topic, and again, an assumption to do when scripture tells us how to honor the Father specifically and that is by honoring the Son ( John 5:22-23 ) and that God's glory rests on the Son ( John 13:31-32 & Philippians 2:5-13 ).  That means we cannot honor nor glorify God the Father by honoring and glorifying God the Father because where is His own personal glory other than the Son's?  That also means we cannot honor nor glorify the Holy Spirit by honoring and glorifying the Holy Spirit because where is His own personal glory other than the Son's?

 

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

 

C. Acts 1:24-26

(24) And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

(25) That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

(26) And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. (KJV)

Although I believe this prayer is primarily addressed to the Lord Jesus there is ample evidence that the Holy Spirit[*2] is also in view (as well as the Father). To begin with the Holy Spirit fully knows the hearts of all (Romans 8:26-27; 1 Corinthians 2:10).[*3] He was the One that showed Matthias was the new apostle (cf. Acts 1:2). In fact, in Acts 1:20 the Greek word for bishoprick (episkopē) means overseer and according to Acts 20:28 the Holy Spirit is said to be responsible for fulfilling the task of selecting overseers (episkopos). Therefore, the lots were cast by those praying in order to know the selection of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:26) in which Matthias was to take (Acts 1:25; cf. Acts 1:20).

Hebrews 4:12-16 cites the Lord Jesus Christ at that throne of grace as the Word of God that searches our hearts and being our only Mediator is the One that knows the hearts of men.  That is plainly written as His job & His glory.

On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

 

[*2] Kenneth Berding (Acts 1:2😞 Furthermore, although not stated explicitly, can there be any doubt that when believers prayed in Acts 1:24-25 - "Lord, you know everyone's heart, Show us which one of these two you have chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place" - that in Luke's theology, the "showing" was via the Spirit (cf. Acts 1:2, 5, 8, 16; 2:4; 10:19; 11:12, 28; 13:2 etc.)? (Who Searches Hearts and What Does He Know in Romans 8:27?, Journal of Biblical and Pneumatological Research, Volume 5, 2013, page 101)

 

[*3] The "depth" (Greek: bathos) of God's omniscience as described in Romans 11:33 are the very same "depths" (Greek: bathos) that the Holy Spirit fully knows (1 Corinthians 2:10).

Again, Hebrews 4:12-16 limits the job of knows the hearts as it is He of Whom we have to do to answer to.  That is His credit and His glory.

On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

 

D. Acts 13:2-4

(2) While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

(3) Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

(4) So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia and from there they sailed to Cyprus. (NASB)

The Holy Spirit knows the hearts[*4] of those that pray and responds to the prayer[*5] by stating, "Set apart for Me..." adding that "I have called them."[*6]

 

[*4] Having such knowledge demonstrates that the Holy Spirit is omniscient (God).

https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...ean-omniscient

I read that plainly for why you are taking that to imply but let us consider what other scripture says before you take that implication as what is meant.

 

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

 

So when we serve the Lord in speaking His words to others, it is not we who speak, but Who?  The Spirit.  But is it really the Spirit speaking those words through His disciples?  No.  It is the Spirit of our Father speaking through them.  Therefore as of now, it is the Spirit of Christ Jesus speaking through us as the words of the Father are now the Son's in fulfilling His role as our Good Shepherd.

 

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

So when I read Acts 13:2, I do so with the understanding which aligns with the rest of scripture that the Holy Spirit is speaking as the Spirit of Christ, because the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself nor speak His own words as John 16:13 explains that truth in all modern Bibles.  When Christ was on earth, He served as the Spirit of the Father; but now that Christ has ascended and all power has been given unto Him, He serves as the Spirit of Christ.  He cannot serve as the Spirit of the Holy Spirit because He cannot speak for Himself or on His own accord or on His own initiative or on His own authority as all modern Bibles will explain and confirm.  He can only speak what He hears for why the Holy Spirit will NEVER turn God's gift of tongues around to speak unto the people to use it as a means to utter His own intercessions when His intercessions are unspeakable as in the Spirit cannot even utter His own groanings.

 

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

 

Many modern Bibles have changed the meaning of His words in verse 26 and some even commit a grammatical error by switching out the "he" in verse 27 to "the Spirit" when obviously, this "he" is seprate from us in searching our hearts is also separate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of that it cannot conclude with "the Spirit" when that "he" is the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Anyway, when it is written what the Holy Spirit says, it is with the understanding that those are not His own words, but the words of Christ Jesus at that throne of grace in being our Good Shepherd through the Holy Spirit in us.  Jesus is the Head of the body of believers and that is how I read Acts 13:2 in keeping with the truth in His words as aligned with the rest of the scripture.

On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

 

[*5] Being God the Holy Spirit is the "Hearer of prayer" (Psalm 65:2).

Psalm 65:2 O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come.

 

Who does all the invitations points to in coming to God?  The Son of God, Jesus Christ.

 

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

Who does scripture points to in getting seekers to come to God for life?  The Son of God, Jesus Christ.

 

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

 

[*6] "Me" and "I" express that the Holy Spirit is a Person (Acts 13:2) while His actions in association with supreme worship denote His Deity. Furthermore, that prayer was rendered unto the "Lord" (in reference to Jesus) coupled with the fact that Paul and Barnabas were "sent out by the Holy Spirit" (Acts 13:4) connects with Isaiah 48:16 in that "the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit."

Again, I understand that the words spoken by the Holy Spirit's are not His own words, but the words from Christ Jesus as per John 16:13.  Just as it is not really His disciples that spoke, but the Spirit of their Father.

On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

 

E. 2 Corinthians 13:14

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. (NASB)

This passage constitutes a prayer to all 3 members of the Trinity.

Citing a reminder and words of encouragement to believers reading the closing of that epistle is hardly a prayer to the Trinity.  It certainly not a prayer to the believers.

 

On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

1. Albert Barnes: In regard to this closing verse of the Epistle, we may make the following remarks:

(1) It is a prayer; and if it is a prayer addressed to God, it is no less so to the Lord Jesus and to the Holy Spirit. If so, it is right to offer worship to the Lord Jesus and to the Holy Spirit.

It is not a prayer.  Since we have scripture specifically stating how God the Father wants us to honor Him by and to glorify Him by which is what the Holy Spirit & scripture is leading us to do, then we cannot make these assumptions that is to the contrary.

On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

(2) there is a distinction in the divine nature; or there is the existence of what is usually termed three persons in the Godhead. If not, why are they mentioned in this manner? If the Lord Jesus is not divine and equal with the Father, why is he mentioned in this connection? How strange it would be for Paul, an inspired man, to pray in the same breath, "the grace of a man or an angel" and "the love of God" be with you! And if the "Holy Spirit" be merely an influence of God or an attribute of God, how strange to pray that the "love of God" and the participation or fellowship of an "influence of God," or an "attribute of God" might be with them!

(3) the Holy Spirit is a person, or has a distinct personality. He is not an attribute of God, nor a mere divine influence. How could prayer be addressed to an attribute, or an influence? But here, nothing can be plainer than that there were favors which the Holy Spirit, as an intelligent and conscious agent, was expected to bestow. And nothing can be plainer than that they were favors in some sense distinct from those which were conferred by the Lord Jesus, and by the Father. Here is a distinction of some kind as real as that between the Lord Jesus and the Father; here are favors expected from him distinct from those conferred by the Father and the Son; and there is, therefore, here all the proof that there can be, that there is in some respects a distinction between the persons here referred to and that the Holy Spirit is an intelligent, conscious agent.

(4) the Lord Jesus is not inferior to the Father, that is, he has an equality with God. If he were not equal, how could he be mentioned, as he here is, as bestowing favors like God, and especially why is he mentioned first? Would Paul, in invoking blessings, mention the name of a mere man or an angel before that of the eternal God?

(5) the passage, therefore, furnishes a proof of the doctrine of the Trinity that has not yet been answered, and, it is believed, cannot be. On the supposition that there are three persons in the adorable Trinity, united in essence and yet distinct in some respects, all is plain and clear. But on the supposition that, the Lord Jesus is a mere man, an angel, or an archangel, and that the Holy Spirit is an attribute, or an influence from God, how unintelligible, confused, strange does all become! That Paul, in the solemn close of the Epistle, should at the same time invoke blessings from a mere creature, and from God, and from an attribute, surpasses belief. But that he should invoke blessings from him who was the equal with the Father, and from the Father himself, and from the Sacred Spirit sustaining the same rank, and in like manner imparting important blessings, is in accordance with all that we should expect, and makes all harmonious and appropriate.

http://www.studylight.org/commentari...ians-13.html#1

If you consider sinners in the world that worship spirits like the American Indians in worshiping the "Great spirit" in how they dance and chant for that great spirit to come, and how they refer to being drunk with alcohol for when they are communing with that great spirit, then see how that iniquity is brought in when worshiping the "Holy Spirit" in "His" visitations in falling on believers in filling them up to get drunk in the "Spirit".  How can God the Father call them out and away from their spirit worship other than by the only way of the Son to keep sinners from adapting their spirit worship towards the Holy Spirit in worship.

 

So there is a white elephant in the room that needs to be addressed for why we need to narrow the way we worship in coming to God the Father in church as we can only live ths reconciled relationship with God through the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Bridegroom.

On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

 

F. Revelation 1:4-5

(4) John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,

(5) and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood. (NASB)

This is a prayer to all 3 Persons of the Trinity by John to bless the seven churches to whom he is writing.

1. Marvin Vincent: Paul nowhere joins the Spirit with the Father and the Son in his opening salutations. The nearest approach is 2 Corinthians 13:13. The reference is not to the seven principal angels (Revelation 8:2). These could not be properly spoken of as the source of grace and peace; nor be associated with the Father and the Son; nor take precedence of the Son, as is the case here. Besides, angels are never called spirits in this book. With the expression compare Revelation 4:5, the seven lamps of fire, “which are the seven Spirits of God:” Revelation 3:1, where Jesus is said to have “the seven Spirits of God.” Thus the seven Spirits belong to the Son as well as to the Father (see John 15:26). The prototype of John's expression is found in the vision of Zechariah, where the Messiah is prefigured as a stone with seven eyes, “the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth” (Zechariah 3:9; Zechariah 4:10). Compare also the same prophet's vision of the seven-branched candlestick (Zechariah 4:2).

Hence the Holy Spirit is called the Seven Spirits; the perfect, mystical number seven indicating unity through diversity (1 Corinthians 12:4). Not the sevenfold gifts of the Spirit are meant, but the divine Personality who imparts them; the one Spirit under the diverse manifestations. Richard of St. Victor (cited by Trench, “Seven Churches”) says: “And from the seven Spirits, that is, from the sevenfold Spirit, which indeed is simple in nature, sevenfold in grace.”

http://www.studylight.org/commentari...i?bk=re&ch=1#1

No.  It is not a prayer to the 3 Persons of the Trinity.  This is a letter from John to address the seven churches as stated in Revelation 1:4. 

On 6/29/2017 at 4:37 AM, Faber said:

 

G. Notable Citations

1. Andrew E. Hill: By way of worship in the early church, the Jewish Christianity of the first century a.d. facilitated the shift from the theocentric worship characteristic of Judaism to the Christocentric (and even Trinitarian) worship that is the hallmark of Christianity (Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology, Worship - 3rd to the last paragraph).

http://www.studylight.org/dictionari...view.cgi?n=745

2. Wayne Grudem: We are to pray only to God, who alone is omnipotent and thus able to answer prayer and who alone is omniscient and therefore able to hear the prayers of all his people at once. By virtue of omnipotence and omniscience, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are also worthy of being prayed to, but this is not true of any other being (Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine, page 407).

3. Charles Spurgeon: Come, Holy Spirit, we can do nothing without thee. We solemnly invoke thee, great Spirit of God! thou who didst rest on Abraham, on Isaac and on Jacob; thou who in the night visions speaketh unto men. Spirit of the Prophets, Spirit of the Apostles, Spirit of the Church, be thou our Spirit this night, that the earth may tremble, that souls may be made to hear thy word, and that all flesh may rejoice together to praise thy name. Unto Father, Son and Holy Ghost, the dread Supreme, be everlasting praise. Amen. (New Park Street Chapel, Southwark on Tuesday Night, December 31, 1855)

http://www.romans45.org/spurgeon/sermons/0059.htm

We should prove all things, even those notable citations. 

 

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

 

#3 is the premise for how those apostate movements of the "spirit" occurs where confusion reigns which God is not the author of.

 

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

Anyway, the Holy Spirit is God, but because of other spirits in the world, God would call sinners away from those spirits to a personal reconciled relationship with Him through the Son, the Bridegroom; Whom is the one and the only way.

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Faber

Isaiah 6:3

 You didn't address the fact that the words of Acts 28:25 are attributed to Him.

 

Matthew 28:19 

All three Names are invoked thus all three Persons are being prayed unto.

 

Acts 1:24-25

You ignored the evidence I gave concerning the Holy Spirit being the recipient of this prayer.

 

Acts 13:2-3

 You wrote, "So when I read Acts 13:2, I do so with the understanding which aligns with the rest of scripture that the Holy Spirit is speaking as the Spirit of Christ, because the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself nor speak His own words..."

 Straw man.

That doesn't address at all the fact that the Holy Spirit both hears and responds to prayers.

 

2 Corinthians 3:16-17

You have not responded yet.

 

2 Corinthians 13:14 

 This is a benediction which necessitates that worship is involved.

 

 

Revelation 1:4-5

 This is an introductory blessing which is a prayer despite your refusal to believe so. This introductory blessing is often done throughout the New Testament as seen below:

 

Romans 1:7

John Lange: This frequent coordination of Christ with the Father, as equally the object of prayer and the source of spiritual blessing, implies the recognition of the divinity of Christ. No Hebrew monotheist could thus associate, without blasphemy, the eternal Jehovah with a mere man.
http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/lcc/romans-1.html

 

 

2 Corinthians 1:2

 Matthew Henry: The salutation or apostolical benediction, which is the same as in his former epistle; and therein the apostle desires the two great and comprehensive blessings, grace and peace, for those Corinthians. These two benefits are fitly joined together, because there is no good and lasting peace without true grace; and both of them come who is the procurer and dispenser of those benefits to fallen man, and is prayed to as God.

http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/mhm/2-corinthians-1.html

 

 

1 Thessalonians 1:1

1. James Dunn: Paul had no hesitation in linking 'the Lord Jesus Christ' with 'God our Father' in formally praying for blessing on the recipients of his letters (Did the First Christians Worship Jesus?, page 27). 
 2. Gottlob Schrenk: The blessing takes the form of a prayer (TDNT 5:1007, patēr).

 

 All the above constitutes praying but it is simply inconsistent of you to deny it also does so in Revelation 1:4-5 in reference to the Holy Spirit.

 

 

 I would also caution you concerning your attack on modern Bibles. They speak more clearly concerning the fact that the Lord Jesus is God better than the KJV.

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