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Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.” - Genesis 2:18
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Meet Like Minded Believers Can two walk together except they be agreed? - Amos 3:3
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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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Chasinglight

Is Genesis a kind of parable to explain what could not have been explained?

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GodsGrace
6 minutes ago, Origen said:

Let me help.  Try this:

 

Got it!!

(On my TV)

Thanks!

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GodsGrace
3 minutes ago, William said:

Isn't evolution without reason?

 

It's like asking an organic farmer if they can create an unintelligent flower from nothing.  I mean all you need is some dirt and a seed right?

 

Reminds me of a joke where a scientist dies and meets God. God asks the scientist what have you done in life? The scientist says we've created a flower from nothing. God asks, please replicate the process so that I may observe. The scientist says, we first need dirt. God interrupts and says, "get your own dirt".

I know that joke.

I still laughed.

Something from nothing is called creation.

Only God can create.....

I'll watch the video...I know how to filter...

I'll reply to the other member tomorrow....late here.

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Guest William
34 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

Something from nothing is called creation.

Musing, is nothing conceivable?

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Guest William
1 hour ago, Red Sky at Morning said:

Thanks @Origen just getting to know how this forum software works 😉

Post the entire Youtube URL in the editor then pause for the video to "auto" embed.

 

The URL to the Youtube video you posted was incorrect. The last portion of the URL was missing and is why the video did not auto embed.

 

God bless,

William

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GodsGrace
31 minutes ago, William said:

Musing, is nothing conceivable?

No! 

But better than... 

Forever

Eternity

 

Of course, there was never a nothing because God always was. 

 

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Guest William
11 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

No! 

But better than... 

Forever

Eternity

 

Of course, there was never a nothing because God always was. 

 

Mind numbing isn't it? I'll share my musing.

 

I asked the question: "Is nothing conceivable?"

 

What happens when nothing becomes conceivable?

 

Seems that working back to nothing eventually arrives at the inconceivable. Once nothing becomes thought up the then nothing becomes something?

 

Don't know, just musing. But there was God and nothing and void. God's mind filled the void and nothing became unreasonable, because nothing created was not from God.

 

Sometimes the concept of the Logos just makes my mind spin.

 

Is it even possible to work backwards to nothing once something exists in time? Creation from nothing seemingly is impossible to replicate because the first step already was.

 

Anyhoot, before they come with a straight jacket.....

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GodsGrace
3 minutes ago, William said:

Mind numbing isn't it? I'll share my musing.

 

I asked the question: "Is nothing conceivable?"

 

What happens when nothing becomes conceivable?

 

Reflecting on the Dr Tour comments and my little joke about the organic farmer seems that working back to nothing eventually arrives at the inconceivable. Once nothing contains a rational thought the nothing becomes something?

 

Don't know, just musing. But there was God and nothing and void. God's mind filled the void and nothing became reasonable, because there was nothing created that was not from God.

 

Sometimes the concept of the Logos just makes my mind spin.

 

Is it even possible to work backwards to nothing once something exists in time? Creation from nothing seemingly is impossible to replicate because the first step already was.

 

Anyhoot, before they come with a straight jacket.....

The video is interesting... Will finish watching it tomorrow. 

I like what you said about working backwards. 

Apparently you're right because both deep thinkers And scientists can't seem to get further back than the big bang... 

I find this very indicative of your point. 

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Guest William
10 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

The video is interesting... Will finish watching it tomorrow. 

I like what you said about working backwards. 

Apparently you're right because both deep thinkers And scientists can't seem to get further back than the big bang... 

I find this very indicative of your point. 

We've been observing Thanos which acquired the "time stone" and went back in time and is changing manuscripts. Internet search 666 and it is evident that Thanos is succeeding because 616 is now surfacing. 

 

We're one step up on them (deep thinkers and scientist) because we can directly observe changing evidence of Thano's works:

 

infinity war avengers GIF by Marvel Studios

 

What cracks me up is that you don't know me well enough to be sure whether I am kidding.

 

sarcastic willy wonka GIF

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GodsGrace
11 minutes ago, William said:

We've been observing Thanos which acquired the "time stone" and went back in time and is changing manuscripts. Internet search 666 and it is evident that Thanos is succeeding because 616 is now surfacing. 

 

We're one step up on them (deep thinkers and scientist) because we can directly observe changing evidence of Thano's works:

 

infinity war avengers GIF by Marvel Studios

 

What cracks me up is that you don't know me well enough to be sure whether I am kidding.

 

sarcastic willy wonka GIF

Don't be so cracked up. 

I know about 616...theyre  not 100% sure though. 

And I think I know you a tiny bit. 

1:30 am here.... 

Bon nuit

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Guest William
21 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

Don't be so cracked up. 

I know about 616...theyre  not 100% sure though. 

And I think I know you a tiny bit. 

1:30 am here.... 

Bon nuit

Then you know Thanos!

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GodsGrace
5 hours ago, William said:

Then you know Thanos!

No! 

But I know Bart Ehrman. 

He's smaller than Thanos but knows everything about the Bible. 

He's a former Christian..... Turned agnostic. 

He does a lot of good debates on YouTube.... 

I do wonder Why he does this. 

Maybe just to promote his  books? 

🤔

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Guest William
2 minutes ago, GodsGrace said:

No! 

But I know Bart Ehrman. 

He's smaller than Thanos but knows everything about the Bible. 

He's a former Christian..... Turned agnostic. 

He does a lot of good debates on YouTube.... 

I do wonder Why he does this. 

Maybe just to promote his  books? 

🤔

I was introduced to Bart Ehrman on a Spiritual forums. The New Agers love him.

 

I'll talk to my buddy Thanos and see if we can erase Bart Ehrman.

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Red Sky at Morning
23 minutes ago, William said:

I was introduced to Bart Ehrman on a Spiritual forums. The New Agers love him.

 

I'll talk to my buddy Thanos and see if we can erase Bart Ehrman.

Bart is also the Muslims favourite! William Lane-Craig does a great job of debating him though. (I won't post another video up, just in case 😉

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Guest William
11 minutes ago, Red Sky at Morning said:

Bart is also the Muslims favourite! William Lane-Craig does a great job of debating him though. (I won't post another video up, just in case 😉

I was just reading a meme about William Lane Craig. I haven't much exposure to him and the little I do I thought he was a wonderful logician and apologist. Other credible scholars agree with that but add he is horrible at theology. The question came to mind after the meme quoted Craig, "Is God limited by His creation?" The question made me remember my past opponents in debate that believed an Absolute Moral Law Giver was rendered impotent by Relativism.

1951537259_WilliamLaneCraig.jpg.28ba8944c5ea1f55c8766a46f5f9d16e.jpg

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Red Sky at Morning

Something I have come to realise with many Christians I have encountered is that I entirely agree with half of what they say!

 

I get what you mean about Dr Lane-Craig on this issue. He is a very bright man and well able to dance round Bart and get some very damaging blows, but there is sometimes a danger in thinking you might have just "figured out" God. 

 

I love C.S. Lewis on this when he pictures Aslan as not being a "tame lion". Sometimes philosophy and theology are superb tools and sometimes they are the key way man tries to limit God.

 

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Red Sky at Morning

P.s. @William - I have noticed when debating philosophically that many forms of logic fall into the same kind of trap as Zeno's Paradoxes - things that are patently untrue yet can be arrived at via a chain of logic. As logic as only as good as the facts it rests on, sometimes our logic regarding God can fail as it rests on our wooly human understanding of his divine attributes.

 

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Guest William
6 hours ago, Red Sky at Morning said:

P.s. @William - I have noticed when debating philosophically that many forms of logic fall into the same kind of trap as Zeno's Paradoxes - things that are patently untrue yet can be arrived at via a chain of logic. As logic as only as good as the facts it rests on, sometimes our logic regarding God can fail as it rests on our wooly human understanding of his divine attributes.

 

I most certainly agree. I note many Liberal and even Theologically wrong schools of thought appear completely logical but they build upon a faulty premise.

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Guest Becky

Many children's songs have a strong basic meant/truth   

 

 

The wise man built his house upon the rock
The wise man built his house upon the rock
The wise man built his house upon the rock
And the rains came tumbling down

The rains came down and the floods came up
The rains came down and the floods came up
The rains came down and the floods came up
And the house on the rock stood firm

The foolish man built his house upon the sand
The foolish man built his house upon the sand
The foolish man built his house upon the sand
And the rains came tumbling down

The rains came down and the floods came up
The rains came down and the floods came up
The rains came down and the floods came up
And the house on the sand went smash

 

 

Mat 7:24  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 
Mat 7:25  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 
Mat 7:26  And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 
Mat 7:27  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 
 

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Guest William
51 minutes ago, Becky said:

Many children's songs have a strong basic meant/truth   

 

 

The wise man built his house upon the rock
The wise man built his house upon the rock
The wise man built his house upon the rock
And the rains came tumbling down

The rains came down and the floods came up
The rains came down and the floods came up
The rains came down and the floods came up
And the house on the rock stood firm

The foolish man built his house upon the sand
The foolish man built his house upon the sand
The foolish man built his house upon the sand
And the rains came tumbling down

The rains came down and the floods came up
The rains came down and the floods came up
The rains came down and the floods came up
And the house on the sand went smash

 

 

Mat 7:24  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 
Mat 7:25  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 
Mat 7:26  And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 
Mat 7:27  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 
 

A major difference between Philosophy and Theology is that Philosophy builds upon worldly wisdom where Systematic Theology builds upon the entirety of Scripture (God's word). Some theological camps build upon Philosophy and that's sinking sand.

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Guest
15 minutes ago, William said:

A major difference between Philosophy and Theology is that Philosophy builds upon worldly wisdom where Systematic Theology builds upon the entirety of Scripture (God's word). Some theological camps build upon Philosophy and that's sinking sand.

That may be the thinking of some but there is a reason philosophy was\is known as the handmaiden of theology.

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Guest William
9 minutes ago, Origen said:

That may be the thinking of some but there is a reason philosophy was known as handmaiden of theology.

I'd think that "true" Philosophy and Theology from revelation couldn't contradict because truth is truth (law of excluded middle).

 

Of course relativistic philosophers of today may disagree (no pun intended).

 

The difference between the two from my observation (correct if wrong) is one is derived from human mind vs divine mind. Interestingly, Christian philosophy then suggests a changed worldview and resulting philosophy built upon the transformed mind?

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islandrazor

The issue of earth age for many Christians has long been simply an acceptance of the traditional view, count the generations of men as listed in scripture, add it up, add 6 days and there you have it. But what exactly does scripture say? Following are scriptures in which I don’t believe there would be any disagreement. God is Light.

2 Sa, 23:4 And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.

Psa, 4:6 There be many that say, Who will shew us any good? LORD, lift thou up the light of thy countenance upon us

Psa, 36:9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

Psa, 74:16 The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.

Psa 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain

Isa, 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

John, 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

Acts, 26:13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

1 Ti, 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1 John, 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Rev, 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years… The answer is right there. On the fourth day God created material lights for the purpose of determining Days and Years.

David understood this millinia ago. Psa, 74:16 The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter. He states, You prepared the Light And you prepared the Sun.

Prior to this there were no seasons, days, years.. and that makes the fifth day likely the 1st 24 hour day. Many count the generations and conclude that creation began 5 days before Adam who was made on day 6. I don’t see scripture making that statement. The above scripture clearly state that God is Light and prior to day 4 He provided the light, then God started the natural, physical clock for this material world. The Sun.

Earth orbits the sun, the planet is simultaneously spinning on an imaginary line called an axis that runs from the North Pole to the South Pole. It takes Earth 23.934 hours to complete a rotation on its axis and 365.26 days to complete an orbit around the sun.

Earth's axis of rotation is tilted in relation to the ecliptic plane, an imaginary surface through the planet's orbit around the sun. This means the Northern and Southern hemispheres will sometimes point toward or away from the sun depending on the time of year, and this changes the amount of light the hemispheres receive, resulting in the seasons.

I understand that this may not be received well by some and really, I’m not concerned. This is not an issue of salvation. God did not see fit to go into great depth on the subject of creation. It is my conclusion from the scriptures mentioned that He gave us enough. As I said I have no desire to argue 6 days, or 3.4 billion years.

In Christ

Isa, 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. ….. God created everything, yet while He created darkness and evil, they do not exist in Him. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

1 John, 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

 

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William. Lloyd
On 3/29/2019 at 12:19 AM, islandrazor said:

The issue of earth age for many Christians has long been simply an acceptance of the traditional view, count the generations of men as listed in scripture, add it up, add 6 days and there you have it. But what exactly does scripture say? Following are scriptures in which I don’t believe there would be any disagreement. God is Light.

2 Sa, 23:4 And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.

Psa, 4:6 There be many that say, Who will shew us any good? LORD, lift thou up the light of thy countenance upon us

Psa, 36:9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

Psa, 74:16 The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.

Psa 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain

Isa, 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

John, 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

Acts, 26:13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

1 Ti, 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1 John, 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Rev, 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years… The answer is right there. On the fourth day God created material lights for the purpose of determining Days and Years.

David understood this millinia ago. Psa, 74:16 The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter. He states, You prepared the Light And you prepared the Sun.

Prior to this there were no seasons, days, years.. and that makes the fifth day likely the 1st 24 hour day. Many count the generations and conclude that creation began 5 days before Adam who was made on day 6. I don’t see scripture making that statement. The above scripture clearly state that God is Light and prior to day 4 He provided the light, then God started the natural, physical clock for this material world. The Sun.

Earth orbits the sun, the planet is simultaneously spinning on an imaginary line called an axis that runs from the North Pole to the South Pole. It takes Earth 23.934 hours to complete a rotation on its axis and 365.26 days to complete an orbit around the sun.

Earth's axis of rotation is tilted in relation to the ecliptic plane, an imaginary surface through the planet's orbit around the sun. This means the Northern and Southern hemispheres will sometimes point toward or away from the sun depending on the time of year, and this changes the amount of light the hemispheres receive, resulting in the seasons.

I understand that this may not be received well by some and really, I’m not concerned. This is not an issue of salvation. God did not see fit to go into great depth on the subject of creation. It is my conclusion from the scriptures mentioned that He gave us enough. As I said I have no desire to argue 6 days, or 3.4 billion years.

In Christ

Isa, 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. ….. God created everything, yet while He created darkness and evil, they do not exist in Him. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

1 John, 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

 

Scientists can only discover what God put here in the beginning.

Its for us to know the mind of God, because He knows all things.

With Love Wnl

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atpollard
On 12/6/2017 at 1:41 PM, Chasinglight said:

Personally, I am Christian, but I believe in evolution. All the facts in science point towards that. What do others think?

I believe in Micro-evolution ... clearly dogs are not the same as wolves ... but just out of curiosity, could you enlighten me about even one piece of evidence that points towards macro-evolution (fish becoming amphibians, amphibians becoming reptiles, reptiles becoming mammals)?

 

I don't "doubt" the evidence, I am simply ignorant of any that isn't some version of "because they MUST have".

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