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Guest theophilus

The Bible and the Big Bang

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Sue D.
When was/is God not a Trinity? Thinking of the OT folks and the Spirit... here is a sampling.

Hi @Becky that is one of the things I love about the history of redemption and God's revelation to us. God has always been Triune, but it was only with the giving of the new testament that we were able to see and understand (in a limited way, of course) this threeness and oneness of God.

I believe the Big Bang is in the Bible where "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." I also believe in the destruction of the universe which is Biblical.

I am with the Lion on this one. I also believe God created everything out of nothing about 13.7 billion years ago, and that that time all the physical universe we know (space, matter, energy and time) began to exist.

Time is an illusion.

Hi @ScottA, I'm not sure what you mean when you say time is an illusion. I think it's true that it is a creation of God, along with the rest of our physical universe, but I also believe that time is as real as the space dimensions of height, width and depth.

I've thought of the creation of the world by God as being sort of a 'big bang' as in God said it 'bang' it came to be Instantly.

 

@Eric T. -- Why do you place creation at 13.7 billion years ago?

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Eric T.
Why do you place creation at 13.7 billion years ago?

Sorry, seems I remembered it wrong. I should have said 13.8 billion years. Here's the first sentence of the Wikipedia article on it:

 

In physical cosmology, the age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The current measurement of the age of the universe is 13.799±0.021 billion (109) years within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.[1][2]

 

Click here if you want to see the whole thing. The age is based on several independent measurements of the time since the expansion first began. This expansion is still going on today.

 

By the way, Hugh Ross has an interesting article where he offers evidence that the Bible was the first to teach the big bang:

http://www.reasons.org/explore/publications/rtb-101/read/rtb-101/2000/06/30/big-bang-the-bible-taught-it-first

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Sue D.
Why do you place creation at 13.7 billion years ago?

Sorry, seems I remembered it wrong. I should have said 13.8 billion years. Here's the first sentence of the Wikipedia article on it:

 

In physical cosmology, the age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The current measurement of the age of the universe is 13.799±0.021 billion (109) years within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.[1][2]

 

Click here if you want to see the whole thing. The age is based on several independent measurements of the time since the expansion first began. This expansion is still going on today.

 

By the way, Hugh Ross has an interesting article where he offers evidence that the Bible was the first to teach the big bang:

http://www.reasons.org/explore/publications/rtb-101/read/rtb-101/2000/06/30/big-bang-the-bible-taught-it-first

Usually the big bang is referring to at some point in long ago time, that just the right chemicals got together and did just the right thing to make the first single-cell object divide and 'the rest is history' -- I've always had a big problem with that because no one seems to know where the necessary chemicals Came from and what made them 'come together' in just the right way. And then there are those who feel that God created the chemicals that came together and He enabled them to work together in just the right way. Well -- since He was able to create That, then Why didn't He just go ahead and create Everything. Just like Genesis 1 tells us He did. And in that particular period of time. As in 6- 24 hr days.

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Guest theophilus
Why do you place creation at 13.7 billion years ago?

Sorry, seems I remembered it wrong. I should have said 13.8 billion years. Here's the first sentence of the Wikipedia article on it:

 

In physical cosmology, the age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The current measurement of the age of the universe is 13.799±0.021 billion (109) years within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.[1][2]

 

Click here if you want to see the whole thing. The age is based on several independent measurements of the time since the expansion first began. This expansion is still going on today.

 

By the way, Hugh Ross has an interesting article where he offers evidence that the Bible was the first to teach the big bang:

http://www.reasons.org/explore/publications/rtb-101/read/rtb-101/2000/06/30/big-bang-the-bible-taught-it-first

You might be interested in what Answers in Genesis says about Hugh Ross.

 

https://answersingenesis.org/creationism/old-earth/creating-confusion-genesis-hugh-ross/

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Eric T.
Why do you place creation at 13.7 billion years ago?

Sorry, seems I remembered it wrong. I should have said 13.8 billion years. Here's the first sentence of the Wikipedia article on it:

 

In physical cosmology, the age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The current measurement of the age of the universe is 13.799±0.021 billion (109) years within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.[1][2]

 

Click here if you want to see the whole thing. The age is based on several independent measurements of the time since the expansion first began. This expansion is still going on today.

 

By the way, Hugh Ross has an interesting article where he offers evidence that the Bible was the first to teach the big bang:

http://www.reasons.org/explore/publications/rtb-101/read/rtb-101/2000/06/30/big-bang-the-bible-taught-it-first

Thanks, Theophilus. I have read AIG's comments on Hugh Ross before. They have their point of view, and they do plenty of good work, but for me on the issue of the age of the earth, I find the Old Earth position to be more convincing. I understand that not everyone will see it this way, and that's OK. For me, these questions are in the same category as one's understanding of the end times. I think Christians can have different ideas about them.

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Sue D.
Why do you place creation at 13.7 billion years ago?

Sorry, seems I remembered it wrong. I should have said 13.8 billion years. Here's the first sentence of the Wikipedia article on it:

 

In physical cosmology, the age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The current measurement of the age of the universe is 13.799±0.021 billion (109) years within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.[1][2]

 

Click here if you want to see the whole thing. The age is based on several independent measurements of the time since the expansion first began. This expansion is still going on today.

 

By the way, Hugh Ross has an interesting article where he offers evidence that the Bible was the first to teach the big bang:

http://www.reasons.org/explore/publications/rtb-101/read/rtb-101/2000/06/30/big-bang-the-bible-taught-it-first

One of my thoughts is that Since God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, why couldn't have the power to create the world in 6 - 24 hr days like Genesis says He did. Is God imnopotent, omniscient and omnipresent or isn't He.

 

There Is a Lot of pressure to conform To evolutionary thought in the higher education community. And, in high school -- from science teachers. Those who want to pursue any kind of professional standing.

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ScottA

Hi @Becky that is one of the things I love about the history of redemption and God's revelation to us. God has always been Triune, but it was only with the giving of the new testament that we were able to see and understand (in a limited way, of course) this threeness and oneness of God.

 

I am with the Lion on this one. I also believe God created everything out of nothing about 13.7 billion years ago, and that that time all the physical universe we know (space, matter, energy and time) began to exist.

 

Hi @ScottA, I'm not sure what you mean when you say time is an illusion. I think it's true that it is a creation of God, along with the rest of our physical universe, but I also believe that time is as real as the space dimensions of height, width and depth.

 

Yes, if the world qualifies to be called "real", then space, time, and matter are all real. But does it qualify? With men, yes, but with God, no.

 

According to God, "all things come in parables" and all is a manifestation for the sake of revelation, that we may know that He alone is God. The statement that "all things come in parables", is the result of God himself confounding all language at the tower of Babel. Therefore, all that "is written" (including the scriptures) is only an "object" of the subject of the parable - for in no parable is the object also the subject. So, then, if God is "real" and what is revealed of him in the world is only a parable - the object of the parable is not what is real, but rather the subject that is real. This is what is meant by the statement, that "man is created in God's image." Likewise, the image is not what is real, but that which it is an image of, is real...and the image is a mere image.

 

Now, I understand that being a "mere image", it is hard to even imagine that all that we know is only an image - but this is according to God. So, then, we are as Pinocchio, like mere wooden toys, praying to be real boys. And the good news is - we can be!

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Sue D.

Hi @Becky that is one of the things I love about the history of redemption and God's revelation to us. God has always been Triune, but it was only with the giving of the new testament that we were able to see and understand (in a limited way, of course) this threeness and oneness of God.

 

I am with the Lion on this one. I also believe God created everything out of nothing about 13.7 billion years ago, and that that time all the physical universe we know (space, matter, energy and time) began to exist.

 

Hi @ScottA, I'm not sure what you mean when you say time is an illusion. I think it's true that it is a creation of God, along with the rest of our physical universe, but I also believe that time is as real as the space dimensions of height, width and depth.

 

Yes, if the world qualifies to be called "real", then space, time, and matter are all real. But does it qualify? With men, yes, but with God, no.

 

According to God, "all things come in parables" and all is a manifestation for the sake of revelation, that we may know that He alone is God. The statement that "all things come in parables", is the result of God himself confounding all language at the tower of Babel. Therefore, all that "is written" (including the scriptures) is only an "object" of the subject of the parable - for in no parable is the object also the subject. So, then, if God is "real" and what is revealed of him in the world is only a parable - the object of the parable is not what is real, but rather the subject that is real. This is what is meant by the statement, that "man is created in God's image." Likewise, the image is not what is real, but that which it is an image of, is real...and the image is a mere image.

 

Now, I understand that being a "mere image", it is hard to even imagine that all that we know is only an image - but this is according to God. So, then, we are as Pinocchio, like mere wooden toys, praying to be real boys. And the good news is - we can be!

The tower of Babel -- God confused the language of the people Because they refused to obey God's command to spread out after the flood -- they were to fill the earth Chapter 9 of Genesis. In chapter 11 we find the tower -- prior to that , everyone spoke the same language. They moved as a group to the plains of Shinar and settled. Their idea was to build a tower that reached to the heavens. They wanted to make a name for themselves and Not be scattered over the earth.

 

God created the various languages so that the people would be forced to break up into groups that they could understand.

 

Parables didn't come into the picture until the New Testament. So that the people could understand heavenly concept through the use of earthly concepts that they were familiar with.

 

Seems like you're adding your own 'perspective' to what Scripture is saying.

 

So you're suggesting that the Scripture we have in not real? And you're also suggesting that God is not real?

 

Your comment "...the image is not what is real, but that which it is an image Of , Is real... and the image is a mere image." To me -- you're not making very much sense.

 

Are you trying to say that this present world is not real -- only heaven Is real -- or will be. This world is Real, but it's also Temporary.

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ScottA

Your information is good, but you are not making the connection. The scriptures are line upon line, here a little and there a little. The confounding of language at the tower of Babel was on ALL language...meaning the local lore is interesting, but not the point. And...if you are not putting that together with "all things come in parables" you will simply not see "all things."

 

As for what is real...pull out your driver's license. Is it real? Are you real? But which is really you? And how much of you does the license contain? Make sense? So, when God said He "created man in His image", and Christ said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" and that we are to "be One with them as they are One"...is the image real, or is the One real? Therefore, I say, the image is just an image - because God has said it first, and I believe Him and understand Him.

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Guest
Your information is good, but you are not making the connection. The scriptures are line upon line, here a little and there a little. The confounding of language at the tower of Babel was on ALL language...meaning the local lore is interesting, but not the point. And...if you are not putting that together with "all things come in parables" you will simply not see "all things."

 

As for what is real...pull out your driver's license. Is it real? Are you real? But which is really you? And how much of you does the license contain? Make sense? So, when God said He "created man in His image", and Christ said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" and that we are to "be One with them as they are One"...is the image real, or is the One real? Therefore, I say, the image is just an image - because God has said it first, and I believe Him and understand Him.

Your obscure speech is causing me some concern. I suggest you plainly without any hints of mysticism or seemingly esoteric language. No New Age nonsense allowed.

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just_me
Your information is good, but you are not making the connection. The scriptures are line upon line, here a little and there a little. The confounding of language at the tower of Babel was on ALL language...meaning the local lore is interesting, but not the point. And...if you are not putting that together with "all things come in parables" you will simply not see "all things."

 

As for what is real...pull out your driver's license. Is it real? Are you real? But which is really you? And how much of you does the license contain? Make sense? So, when God said He "created man in His image", and Christ said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" and that we are to "be One with them as they are One"...is the image real, or is the One real? Therefore, I say, the image is just an image - because God has said it first, and I believe Him and understand Him.

 

I think your philosophical imagery needs a lot more explaining. in plain English.

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ScottA
Your obscure speech is causing me some concern. I suggest you plainly without any hints of mysticism or seemingly esoteric language. No New Age nonsense allowed.

 

 

Edited by Becky
Discussion and debating are fine .. goading is just childish and not acceptable
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ScottA

 

I think your philosophical imagery needs a lot more explaining. in plain English.

 

I understand, but just think of the book of revelation, think of Jesus' explanation of being born again of the spirit of God, and eating His flesh and drinking His blood. You could not be more wrong. Let me suggest that what is required is not "plain English", but the "renewing of the mind" from "worldly things" to "heavenly things."

 

Edited by William

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deade
I do remember that when Jesus took three of the apostles up in a mount and there appeared Moses and Elijah and both of them talked to Juese. Is this a example of the elect? If so, I'm begining to understand what you mean. These two were obviously alive and this was before Jesus's death.

The transfiguration was just a vision. Jesus said so:

Matt. 17:9: "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead."

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just_me

 

I understand, but just think of the book of revelation, think of Jesus' explanation of being born again of the spirit of God, and eating His flesh and drinking His blood. You could not be more wrong. Let me suggest that what is required is not "plain English", but the "renewing of the mind" from "worldly things" to "heavenly things."

 

And this I say to Origen as well, who seems to have his finger on zap all that is spiritual button, even toward quotes of scripture.

 

Dude plan English is sufficient to get out your reasoning here. You speak about symbolism that are placed in the Bible that we all know are symbolic. The eating of Christ's flesh and the drinking of his blood was not meant to be taken literally. Neither was the Idea of being born again. We, as Christian's know this, but the way you present your understanding is not all that clear. This is a suggestion and one I offer out of respect for you as a member here. I would ask you to do me the honor in return If I post something that is just as vague. Thank you and God bless.

 

As far as Origin, he is a moderator and tasked with policing the forum. I would suggest if you wish to critique him you do so privately in a pm.

Edited by just_me
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ScottA
Your obscure speech is causing me some concern. I suggest you plainly without any hints of mysticism or seemingly esoteric language. No New Age nonsense allowed.

 

This is goading.

 

I quoted the scriptures...and this is the treatment dished out by a mod. Nice place you have here.

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ScottA

 

Dude plan English is sufficient to get out your reasoning here. You speak about symbolism that are placed in the Bible that we all know are symbolic. The eating of Christ's flesh and the drinking of his blood was not meant to be taken literally. Neither was the Idea of being born again. We, as Christian's know this, but the way you present your understanding is not all that clear. This is a suggestion and one I offer out of respect for you as a member here. I would ask you to do me the honor in return If I post something that is just as vague. Thank you and God bless.

 

As far as Origin, he is a moderator and tasked with policing the forum. I would suggest if you which to critique him you do so privately in a pm.

 

And yet he has goaded me in public, for quoting the scriptures.

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Guest William
Your information is good, but you are not making the connection. The scriptures are line upon line, here a little and there a little. The confounding of language at the tower of Babel was on ALL language...meaning the local lore is interesting, but not the point. And...if you are not putting that together with "all things come in parables" you will simply not see "all things."

 

As for what is real...pull out your driver's license. Is it real? Are you real? But which is really you? And how much of you does the license contain? Make sense? So, when God said He "created man in His image", and Christ said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" and that we are to "be One with them as they are One"...is the image real, or is the One real? Therefore, I say, the image is just an image - because God has said it first, and I believe Him and understand Him.

Your obscure speech is causing me some concern. I suggest you plainly without any hints of mysticism or seemingly esoteric language. No New Age nonsense allowed.

New Ageism should not be tolerated.

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just_me

 

And yet he has goaded me in public, for quoting the scriptures.

 

I'm sorry. I know that this person is banned, but I'd like to ask the rest of the forum, why is it so hard for some people, i'm not talking about staff members.but those who come here of their own accord, to understand the concept of praising in public and chastising in private?

 

Freedom of speech is not freedom of hurt or freedom to disrespect and that goes double for when addressing the officers designated to enforce the rules in a privately owned forum. It is a privileged to be here and those who are here, are here because someone else has taken the time, with loving kindness to create a place in which we can assemble. Those who holed office within these forums are here, not to lord over anyone, but are here to enforce standards of behavior that are set by they who created the forum, in the first place.

 

I apologize in advance if there is something wrong with saying this, but couldn't the activity of flaunting disrespect for the authority of those within a web site be akin to disrespecting the authority of the very governments that the Bible says has been created by God.or under his authority. I don't know if I have that scripture correctly or not. Please correct me if I've messed up, but Isn't there a scripture that specks about god authorizing the governments of the world and that we, as Christians need to obey them, as long as it doesn't cross the laws of God.

 

If that is so and if I am correct in equating the authority of governments to the authority of governing individual forums, could it not be said that those like this last member was not acting in accordance with Gods purpose when he openly defied a staff member here? If I am correct in this mindset, is it not unChristianlike to act in the manner they do?

 

I don't know if I'm being clear in my description of my meaning here and I apologize if I'm not, but I am doing the best I can.

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Sue D.

 

And yet he has goaded me in public, for quoting the scriptures.

 

I'm sorry. I know that this person is banned, but I'd like to ask the rest of the forum, why is it so hard for some people, i'm not talking about staff members.but those who come here of their own accord, to understand the concept of praising in public and chastising in private?

 

Freedom of speech is not freedom of hurt or freedom to disrespect and that goes double for when addressing the officers designated to enforce the rules in a privately owned forum. It is a privileged to be here and those who are here, are here because someone else has taken the time, with loving kindness to create a place in which we can assemble. Those who holed office within these forums are here, not to lord over anyone, but are here to enforce standards of behavior that are set by they who created the forum, in the first place.

 

I apologize in advance if there is something wrong with saying this, but couldn't the activity of flaunting disrespect for the authority of those within a web site be akin to disrespecting the authority of the very governments that the Bible says has been created by God.or under his authority. I don't know if I have that scripture correctly or not. Please correct me if I've messed up, but Isn't there a scripture that specks about god authorizing the governments of the world and that we, as Christians need to obey them, as long as it doesn't cross the laws of God.

 

If that is so and if I am correct in equating the authority of governments to the authority of governing individual forums, could it not be said that those like this last member was not acting in accordance with Gods purpose when he openly defied a staff member here? If I am correct in this mindset, is it not unChristianlike to act in the manner they do?

 

I don't know if I'm being clear in my description of my meaning here and I apologize if I'm not, but I am doing the best I can.

There was another forum I'd been on for quite a while -- it was an atheistic one -- every so often I'd get a warning via PM's from a moderator -- I'd had no clue about PM's until one of the other posters told me to check mine. I'd been talking about God too much. So - I apologized to the moderator through another PM. BTW I'm Not atheistic -- I'd heard about the forum -- anyone from any religion could discuss religious subjects as well as many other subjects. But it happened to be moderated by a couple of atheists.

 

My point is that there had been private warning Before I was banned. On that particular forum, they simply didn't like having a 'believer' on it. That forum ended up banning many people who brought God into the picture. I simply had to learn how to word my posts better. After That, they simply found a way / excuse to get me out of that forum.

 

I've been on This forum for a while and every so often there has been a new poster who starts out nicely and then gets 'rebellious' and just recently -- his attitude was changing and I wondered how long He'd been here. Seems that some people simply don't like following rules / guidelines.

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Pillar
....

 

... when God said He "created man in His image", and Christ said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" and that we are to "be One with them as they are One"...is the image real, or is the One real? Therefore, I say, the image is just an image - because God has said it first, and I believe Him and understand Him.

 

I understand you are trying to shift the emphasis of reality to God rather than the creation, which by comparison to God is just a hologram.

But unfortunately, such an exercise tends to diminish the strength that God has invested in creation, because we cannot fathom anything greater than what we have.

 

The creative word of God, has horrendous power, life and infinitely intelligent application. When God creates by the breath of his mouth, nothing can annul what he does, it is far too strong and everlasting.

So when we are looking at the universe and our existence, as Christians we cannot accept the scientific proposition that the universe is a mere hologram. It is far more than that, it is beyond our comprehension.

 

However, the Bible allows mental exercises that minimize our world and reality, in order that we may respect the greatness and incomprehensibility of God. For example "the earth is less than nothing" "the nations are a drop in the bucket" "What is man that thou art mindful of him?"

 

Jesus said that heaven and earth may be changed but his word is eternally secure, and so is anything that he chooses to be, no matter how insignificant it is.

 

In the spiritual application, the image that we are of God is primarily in reference to character, and secondarily to our appearance, but then there is the gap between the infinite God and the finite man, and in that sense the image is less than a dream. And it is true, that even by character, God is the One who has it all, and we are the minor recipients of that Light.

 

Our existence is a miracle.

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